Philippines' Wonder Woman Tackles Global Plastic

This week we meet Nanette Medved-Po, a Philippine entrepreneur who began her career as an actress and became a regional celebrity thanks to her role as the local version of Wonder Woman. Since then she has employed her education, smarts, and star power to help others and the planet.

Nanette is a board member of the WFF Asia and was named one of Forbes’ Heroes of Philanthropy. Most recently she founded The Plastic Credit Exchange, fashioned after carbon credit exchanges, in order to tackle the problem of plastic waste. It’s the first of its kind and they are going global.

I love this story because Nanette’s path is so varied and because the Plastic Credit Exchange came about in order to solve a problem she felt she had created by trying to solve another problem!

This is a meaty episode where we learn not only how the exchange came to be but we also talk UN Basel Convention, Greenpeace, incineration 2.0, Extended Producer Responsibility, and why the perfect can be the enemy of the good when it comes to impact entrepreneurship.

Transcript

Title: Philippine’s Wonder Woman Tackles the Global Plastic Problem: Nanette Medved-Po

Keywords: #oceanplastics #philippines #wonderwoman #climatechange #recycling #incineration2.0 #pollution #trash #blockchain

Bullets:

• Extended Producer Responsibility 
• how countries like the Philippines are bearing the brunt of the world's plastic problem. 
• cutting edge technologies like Blockchain can be used to help reduce plastic waste. 
• the difference between creating a credit marketplace, and a credit exchange,
• new global plastic standards coming around the world 
• why burning trash may not be so bad afterall

Some Mentions in this podcasts

Nanette Medved-Po

Plastic Credit Exchange

UN Sustainability Goals

Greenpeace

UN BASEL CONVENTION

World Wildlife Foundation (WWF)

INTRO:

HOST VO: Welcome to Happy Planet, the impact economy podcast where we speak with entrepreneurs, investors, and thought leaders in search of profit and planetary health. I am your host Abigail Carroll. 

Today’s episode takes us to the Philippines, at least via zoom, where we speak with Nanette Medved-Po, who, in the early 90s, gained regional fame for her rendition of Wonder Woman in the Filipino version of the classic movie. Now she’s using her personal brand and influence to combat plastic pollution, which as we will hear, is a particular problem for the Philippines. Nanette’s solution was to found the Plastic Credit Exchange a credit-based plastic eco-system designed to incentivize communities to clean up and properly recycle plastic pollution,  systematize, track and monitor, the recycling process, and finally to offer a platform for businesses and individuals to purchase credits to offset the plastic they can’t yet eliminate. 

One acronym you will hear in this episode is EPR. That means Extended Producer Responsibility which holds producers responsible for the collection and recycling of specified volumes of plastic that they produce and place into the market. As we will hear, EPR laws are making their ways around the planet.

Let’s go to the podcast and hear it first hand from Nanette. 

Abigail (02:15):

welcome to the podcast, Nannette. Thank you for coming.

Abigail (02:36):

you are not only, uh, the, the guest from the further distance, but you might be the most celebrated guest I've had on my, on my podcast so far. Uh, you have, you've served on many really fabulous boards, including the wwf, uh, the Hunger Project. You've won numerous leadership awards, both regional and global, and you've also been named one of Forbes' Heroes of Philanthropy. Um, now you've, uh, started the, you've co-founded the world's first plastic credit exchange. Um, but before we get into that, I'd really love to hear how did you get interested in this sort of mission driven work?

Nanette (03:19):

<laugh>, thank you for having me, Abigail. Um, how did I get involved? I think everyone, to some extent wants to make sure they're being helpful, right? And I think that that's something that's true for me. And, um, it just became more, um, obvious how I could be helpful, I think in my entertainment career, um, in the Philippines, I don't know how it is in the US but in the Philippines, um, um, people in the movie industry, you know, have quite a bit of influence over the public, and I felt that it would be a real shame if I didn't use that, you know, little soapbox that I have, um, on something, uh, that I really wanted to make sure I was using that platform for something good. Right. Uh, you know, uh, so I, I started off that way, wasn't quite sure how I was gonna go about it.

Nanette (04:13):

Um, did quite a few, you know, little things here and there to try to be helpful, you know, serving on boards, um, you know, trying to raise awareness around, uh, lots of different issues until I eventually started Hope, we're, you know, 10 years old now. We were the Philippines first, uh, B Corp. We continued to be best for the world, you know, every year since our first awarding. from Hope whose flagship product is a bottled water that comes in a plastic bottle, you know, 

Nanette (04:51):

Yeah. I, I became very worried about, well, uh, you know, for our bottled water, a hundred percent of the profit goes to, um, building public school classrooms with the Department of Education. So we were very, felt very proud about that initiative. But then we really worried that, well, if we're trying to help an education, but they're polluting the planet at the same time, I'm not quite sure how much good we're doing. And so, um, you know, that really forced us to take a hard look at plastics, you know, all the real, it's a very complex, uh, situation around plastics. Um, how do we try and do our best, you know, if you have to serve, uh, your market in plastics, and then, then that's how the plastic credit exchange was born.

Abigail (05:32):

Very interesting. So, can you tell us a little bit about your backstory in the movie industry?

Nanette (05:37):

Oh, my, um, <laugh>. Yeah. So I, you know, started when I was in my teens. Um, it was very fortunate to have a, a great career, which I guess people mostly remember me as being kind of our local version of Wonder Woman, you know, <laugh>, every, I guess every girls

Abigail (05:59):

You still are

Nanette (05:59):

A dream <laugh>. Yeah. And so we, so, you know, I think that's what people most remember me for, which I guess isn't, doesn't hurt when you're trying to do the kind of work I'm doing.

Abigail (06:12):

No, I think it's great, taking on plastics, uh, requires that Wonder Woman spirit, so

Nanette (06:22):

<laugh> Yeah, for sure. Or something. I don't even know if that's enough.

Abigail (06:26):

 Firstly, just to address the hope issue, I feel like that's a trap we get into, you know, you, you wanna push one lever or create one thing to, to solve one problem. and there's always other effects that happen and, and it's so hard to anticipate or do it all right on the first try. So I, I think it's a really important lesson too, and you know, how to move forward and then reflect on what you've done, and maybe the reflection on what you've done actually leads to the much bigger, you know, problem solving that you can do.

Nanette (07:09):

And for sure. Yeah. I, I thi nk that we, you know, as to your point, you know, we always start out trying to do something helpful. And, and the truth is, is nothing's perfect and you will come across challenges. And actually that's really a great thing because it, you're unlikely to be the only person experiencing challenges in that space. So if you can really kind of put your mind and your team's, efforts behind trying to solve that, you're probably going after a much bigger problem, which, which is what we found with plastics. We'd never thought we'd find ourselves in this space.

Abigail (07:43):

you know, it's, it's universal. It's enormous. you're on the other side of the globe and, uh, and in the Pacific Ocean, you know, there's the big plastic island mm-hmm. <affirmative>. you're in the Philippines. Is Philippines a place that is particularly impacted by plastic pollution? 

Nanette (08:10):

Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. So, you know, just to demonstrate, uh, the Philippines is actually, uh, infamously known as the third worst offender for ocean plastic pollution. And the truth is, is a <laugh> that's not entirely our fault. We are the recipient of a lot of developed countries exporting their waste to us. And we don't actually have the infrastructure to deal with it. I think, I think the government likes the revenue streams that come in with accepting the waste, but then we don't know what to do with it once it's here.

Abigail (12:19):

so let's get to the meat of this plastic credit exchange. tell me how it works.

Nanette (12:42):

Well, um, let me go back to kind of how we started, and that's the best way to tell you how it works. Yeah. So what we do is we work with projects, um, mostly small community-based projects who are working on the ground where they feel the problem intimately, you know, whenever there's flooding, you know, they, they, they, people, you know, there's trash everywhere. I'm sure you've seen this on TikTok or on YouTube, you know, and, and people really suffer. So we work with these communities to collect plastic waste, and we, uh, do this, the way we incentivize them is we actually pay them. So it's a waste to cash program. And we feel that that is the best way to create behavior change in communities is through money. Right? You don't see glass or paper, you know, polluting the streets because folks will pick it up, you know, and send it over to their, you know, uh, their junk trader and, and they'll get some money for it.

Nanette (13:39):

So we're trying to create that same financial incentive. Um, so we are paying for plastic waste, um, and then we work with women, uh, micro entrepreneurs to collect that waste. Uh, there's, they are the station in the community, and then we pick it up from her paying her, uh, you know, a commission on that so that she's making some money as well. And then we take that plastic to a processor, uh, who we have pre-vetted for environmental compliance and labor compliance and all of those things. 

Abigail (27:59):

So, okay, so what does that mean to process it? What, what is happening to this, these plastics that are being collected?

Nanette (28:07):

Well, it depends, right? So I think a lot of people don't understand that plastics, there are thousands of kinds of, you know, ways that you could have. They're not all alike plastic. Yeah. They're not all plastics created equal. Not all of it's recyclable today. Um, and even if it is, and, and this is what was horrifying, a lot of the folks we spoke to in the US, you know, people painstakingly separate their plastics, you know, thinking that it's gonna get recycled. But in the US your recycling rate's actually lower than the rest of the world. It actually doesn't get recycled. It actually gets dumped all together somewhere and then gets shipped off, or, or, or whatever. Right? So what we do,

Abigail (28:45):

I think that's cuz China stopped taking it, right?

Nanette (28:48):

Yes, they did start and wisely because,

Abigail (28:52):

And some of it to you in the Philippines

Nanette (28:54):

<laugh> Yeah. And about 17 other destinations. But anyway, um, so what happens is, even if you do have plastic content, like let's say a brand tries their absolute best to make sure that their packaging becomes recyclable material, whether something is recyclable or whether it gets recycled is two completely different things. Right? And in many cases it is not going to get recycled. So even if a company goes to recycled content, you have between a four and nine, 9% chance that it's going to get recycled, which is not great. Right? So what we do is we work with, uh, collectors to separate that plastic into what can and can't be recycled in the country it's in. Cuz the last thing you wanna do is then

Abigail (29:43):

Like create a carbon

Nanette (29:44):

Ship plastic again, somewhere across the ocean to another country to get recycled. Cuz then you're, to your point about creating another problem, then you're creating a problem in the carbon space, right? Yeah. Because you're having to transport trash. So what we do is we separate, depending on the country we're working in, cuz we do work in a couple, you know, or a few right now, um, we separate plastic that can be recycled, send it to the recycler, and anything that cannot be recycled, which we are going to call end of life in this conversation Yeah. We send it to end of life processors. And that is, and this is where it kind of gets tricky because when people think, oh my god, you know, you're burning it. Well yeah, if you're thinking about burning, you know, your grandfather's incineration 60 years ago, that is problematic.

Nanette (30:31):

But nowadays there are actually some processors who actually abide by the UN Basel Convention on emissions guidelines and are incredibly safe. Um, Singapore is a very good example, right? Has this, and there are countries around the world, um, who have co-processor or waste to energy providers who pass the Basil convention guidelines. And those are the guys we work with. So, you know, if there are, you know, 20 co-processor or waste to energy processors in the Philippines, we might work with two <laugh> because only two of them passed, uh, the audit for, for basil convention. So, uh, yes, we do send them to waste to energy, uh, or co-processor, but we make sure that they are, um, basil convention compliant because I'm horrified that I might be taking plastic out of the ocean and then putting it in the air  hich is

Abigail (31:31):

Completely

Nanette (31:32):

Counterproductive. So we did go to the U N E P and they gave us a position and they said, look in countries that lack higher level infrastructure, uh, to recycle plastic waste, and by the way, not all recycling is actually good. Right. Some of it is very polluting, right? For sure. Um, they do recommend basil compliant co-processing or waste to energy. So that's the direction we went. Now, is it perfect? Absolutely not. So our, our aspiration is that we get enough momentum around plastic recycling, plastic credits so that we can invest in the kind of infrastructure that actually gets us to this whole circular economy that everybody's talking about. But actually it doesn't exist. Right?

Abigail (32:18):

Right. Well, it's gotta start somewhere, right? Yes. And I heard it was called Incineration 2.0.

Nanette (33:07):

what I thought was super interesting is there was, there was some information that the emissions, that the air quality on the emissions that were coming out of their facilities was actually cleaner than the surrounding air. Um, and I was blown away by that. I was like, really? <laugh>?

Nanette (34:12):

on the incineration 2.0, I think the word incineration has a lot of baggage around it. Um, but to the point that the UN is making, there are technologies out there now, which are quite clean. Um, the, the problem is not everybody's invested in that, cuz it's super expensive, but you wanna support the guys that have done it, right? Yeah. And so, uh, we, we have a couple of them here. Um, and, and so we do work with them.

Nanette (13:39 cont)

Um, and they process it and provide us with all the documentation that goes into our blockchain. And this is what makes it, so I think, which has given us quite a bit of credibility so far, is, uh, I'm not a tech person <laugh>, but this is the application that blockchain was made for, right? It's a very physical tracing of, you know, where did you pick up some plastic?

Nanette (14:34):

How much did you pick up? What kind of plastic was it? Where did it go, <laugh>, and what did they do with it? And, you know, what was the output? Um, how environmentally compliant are they? All of those documents are actually uploaded into our blockchain.

That, that information, if it, if it doesn't look right. So we, uh, we provide that end-to-end. There's a lot of certification that goes on in between, like I said, we certify the processors under the standard PPRS We are the very first standard for plastic offsets in the world.

So if we have a, a partner, let's say we work with Pepsi, or we work with some, you know, small next gen brand out there, when they say, this is what we're doing, people can be very confident that there is no greenwashing because they can actually go onto our public registry, click on, okay, the blockchain, what these, yeah. What are is what these guys saying in press real <laugh> Yeah. And look at it and actually challenge, right? 

Nanette (15:38):

Um, and we make sure that, so there's no conflict of interest. We don't actually, uh, do the audit. We work with third party auditors, uh, who, you know, no point in checking your own paper. There's no credibility there, right? So when we use either Pricewaterhouse, Cooper, Ernst and Young, or Control Union, uh, to go out and do the auditing and submit a recommendation for certification, we do that for the processor. But we also do that for our credits. We have what's called a process audit. They come in and actually look at all our paperwork to make sure that's all kosher and says, okay, you know, this, this looks legitimate. We're gonna allow you to put it up on the blockchain. So, uh, we put enough safeguards in place. I think that some of the bigger folks out there who are very compliance driven have trust the work that we do.

Nanette (09:13):

so yes, this is a huge problem, but, uh, the good news is not only did that spur the, the birth of something like the plastic credit exchange to adjust that problem, but governments are really starting to take notice. In fact, uh, the UN moved very quickly, um, this year to, to come up with a treaty, um, that, or at least work on a treaty that should be done by 2025 to make sure that countries around the world are signed up to really, uh, put compliance in place to address this problem. And the Philippines, this year, actually, uh, a month ago, about, about a month ago, um, passed the most aggressive EPR legislation. In the world for plastic. So we, at the end of the seven year period will have actually required, uh, any company of significant size to be 80% responsible for their plastic footprint. Now, I'd love to say that it'd be a hundred, but 80 percent's pretty aggressive considering what's out there right now. And I'm happy to take it today and keep working on getting to a hundred <laugh>

Abigail (10:46):

For sure. 

Abigail (16:29):

there's two paths here, if I understand correctly. One's sort of a partner path where a corporate will subsidize the activity that you manage, they'll pay you to manage cleanups. Yeah. Is that correct? That is correct. And then there's another option, which is that pretty much anybody, if I understand correctly Yes. Can go onto your website Yes. buy plastic credits.

Nanette (17:06):

Yeah. So this is something actually we just launched what we were trying to do was we have come across, so, you know, in the process of talking about our work, you're talking to people, individuals, yeah. At the end of the day. And each of these individuals has some really visceral <laugh>, uh, experience with plastic, you know, whether you get your food delivery and it's like, oh my God, there's so much plastic everywhere, or your Amazon delivery or whatever, right? or you walk over to a beach, you know, and, and there's plastic everywhere. So there's this real personal experience around plastic. And so a lot of them have said, I would do this personally, like even if my company, cuz if y'all wanna do it at a company level, you need quite a bit of buy-in from quite a few folks.

Nanette (17:57):

Um, but at a personal level, I'd really like to make sure that I'm, you know, taking care of my personal plastic footprint. And so we thought that's a really great idea. are we just focusing on the big corporates? Why don't we go where this is a really, not only very personal, but very genuine sort of, uh, move on on someone's part. And so we offered, just like two days ago, um, a, a personal offset option where you could offset your personal footprint, you can offset the footprint of you and your spouse, or you can do it for your whole family. So we've kind of got this, this package now, which it goes straight to the consumer so folks can actually take action even if the brands they love don't. Right,

Abigail (18:43):

Right, right. So, well this is, this is interesting. So how do you know how much to offset? 

Nanette (18:50):

Okay, <laugh>, so that was, I was asked that question last night. They were saying, how come if you offset in the Philippines, it's only 20 kilos, but if you offset in the US it's 150 kilos per person. And that actually we, we get that infor, we don't create that data, that data, actually, I

Abigail (19:06):

Think I know why <laugh>.

Nanette (19:13):

 the US actually has the highest consumption per capita in the world for plastic. Um, so you have the largest plastic waste footprint. So if you are in the US, um, you know, it's 150 kilos to offset your personal plastic footprint. But in the Philippines, uh, you know, your personal plastic footprint is only 20 kilos. And we get this information, um, from, you know, large organizations like the U N E P, um, or the World Bank. They will have this information, they go about the, you know, the, the rough job of having to compute, uh, what that might be on average per person. And we just kind of take that and, and use that as our, as our guide, our guideposts when we offset people's footprints.

VO: We’ll be back with more Happy Planet in just a moment

BREAK: Spark no & maine Venture fund. 

Welcome back to Happy Planet. In this second half we are going to come back to the concept of EPR,  Extended Producer Responsibility, which aims to set standards for companies to deal with the plastic waste they create. As we are going to hear, the UN is about to help raise the epr bar for the world.

Abigail (20:01):

Um, so the corporates that get involved, what is, what do they get from this? What do like, well, what,

Nanette (20:10):

Yeah, yeah, it depends, right? So if you are in the Philippines,you are now doing this for compliance reasons. And that is a wonderful thing. Absolutely. And if the UN does its job by 2025, pretty much every country in the world is going to have a compliance credit. So they will require businesses to take responsibility for their footprint post sale, right? So that's how it would be in the Philippines. But in fairness, there are a whole bunch of , like, especially these young next generation brands in the US you know, who really are concerned. They don't have a compliance from the government, so it is a voluntary action, but they really are aligning with the values of their customers and saying, you know what? We really wanna walk the talk here. We, we wanna be a sustainable brand. It is affordable for us to take responsibility. And so we wanna do so because our customers care about this. And we, you know, people in our organization care about this. And usually these smaller companies, you know, founder-led, can make a decision very quickly about, uh, creating impact for their brand and for their customers. So people can go on to Amazon and buy their deodorant or their alco gel or whatever, uh, you know, not worrying about where that plastic footprint goes.

Abigail (21:35):

Right? Um, but some, so, so there are gonna be naysayers about all of these credit exchanges, right? With the carbon credit exchange. Right now we've got a lot of people saying, no, just incentivizes, you know, the fossil fuel companies will start just keep making fossil fuel and, um, and we won't see change. Um, what do you, what do you say to them? Like,

Nanette (21:58):

No, I say that's a super important voice. Um, and, and I, and I said this the other day when Greenpeace was presenting as well in Congress, um, these are super important things that need to be said because it keeps folks like, you know, any groups like ourselves on our feet, um, monitoring what could go wrong. Now, I know our name is Plastic Credit Exchange, and I probably didn't think that through <laugh>. Well, in the beginning I

Abigail (22:26):

Was pretty clear to me you could go there for Yeah.

Nanette (22:29):

But yeah, so because today we are not an exchange, we are a marketplace kind of like an Airbnb for plastic projects, right? We're not an exchange yet. And then precisely because we didn't want folks to come on and just be thinking about how much money they could make trading credits, right? That's not what we're trying to do. What we're trying to do is gather as much support as possible for projects around the world who are trying to do the right thing And in, and many times, these are small projects, community led, a lot of times nonprofits, right? Who, who really need funding to scale up the good work they're doing. And so we are actually today just a marketplace. And what I would say is all of those criticisms that you experienced around carbon, we actually looked at, if you go onto our website, you can actually see, you know, whether it's double counting, additionality, traceability, transparency, you know, all of those things are legitimate concerns. And I think if we want this space to progress in a meaningful way, all of us, not just pcx, really need to look at that and solve for those risks in our business. Um, and so, you know, thank you for, for being vigilant to all of you who worry about these things.

Abigail (23:51):

it's a pretty monumental thing to be the first to sort of measure to think about and figure out how to measure and verify in any of these exchanges how did you figure out how to kind of get the information and bring these pieces together to, to initiate this? I'm sure others are gonna follow. how did, how did you figure that out?

Nanette (24:34):

the truth is, is, you know, for, I'm sure anyone can relate to this, plastic is actually so much easier to guard against fraud than carbon. Carbon. You, I, and, and, and both Sebastian and our CEO and, and myself, when we speak at conferences, we ask folks in the room like, how much carbon do you think there is in the room? How do you feel about it? And everybody is just kind of looking at each other like, huh? you need a PhD to even start to think about how you would compute the carbon in the room, uh, or how you feel about it. Right? But the, then when we follow up and we say, well, how much plastic do we have in the room? Right? And so people look at the plastic bottles and on the tables and it's like, well, the truth is, is anybody can go out and measure that plastic.

Nanette (25:26):

You put it in a bag and you weigh it and you know, you don't need a PhD to do that. Right? And so in our case, it's super easy to validate impact on plastic because it's physical. You can touch it, you can weigh it, you can take a picture of it, follow it wherever it goes, and measure and scan it at each place so that at the end of it, you can have very definitive data on what happened. Whenever we deliver a credit, it is impact already delivered. It's not, you know, you have to have faith that we're gonna do it at some point at the end of the year or two years, or five years from now, we only deliver credit once we can get every single data point in that value chain that says it was collected, it was weighed, it went here, this was the environmental compliance, and this is what came out of it.

Nanette (26:31):

Um, unless we get all of that information, there is no credit.

Abigail (26:35):

Yeah. So the plastic that you're pulling today, these projects, and I'm assuming if anybody has a, you know, a cleanup project, they can come to you., and the goal right now is to pull all of this plastic out of the natural environment. Is that correct?

Nanette (26:57):

Yeah, we, we would normally, and you know, so ag aggregating or collecting projects are pretty easy to get, um, to get included on the exchange. But we do need to make sure that plastic isn't just collected. It needs, we need to do something with it because of

Abigail (27:13):

Plastic. Right. Well that was my next question.

Nanette (27:14):

You're just moving plastic from one place to another and there's no benefit in doing that. Right? So what we do is we say, okay, if you're collecting plastic that is super, let's make sure that we are sending it to the right places so we can complete that process before we issue a credit. And so if those folks don't have something to do with the plastic we lend, we then partner them up with a processor to make sure that entire process is done so we can issue a credit, but we will not issue, you know, only one part of the credit. Because how do you know what they did with it? They might have just left it on the beach and then it blew out into the ocean again.

Abigail (34:48):

So do you have plans to expand globally? You said you're in a few mm-hmm. <affirmative> few countries right now. Are you gonna come help us out in, in the United States?

Nanette (35:52):

<laugh>? Yes. So, you know, the funny thing is, I think Americans, and, and this is something that, that I was pleasantly surprised about. You know, Americans do take, these kinds of actions very personally, they want to know, you know, they don't wanna rely on government or big business to kind of meet their requirements of their own kind of personal values. So they do take action personally. They feel strongly about something, they wanna take action. And, and that's something we see, um, more in the US than we do anywhere else. Like in the Philippines, this is not so much a personal thing, it’s a corporate thing. But in the US, Americans really do care on a personal level and wanna do something about it. So yes, we are going to the US we operate a, at like, I think five or six countries right now. But the truth is, is because Americans understand that plastic is a global problem, right? Just because you're polluting in Manhattan doesn't mean that you're plastic ne necessarily stays in

Abigail (36:58):

Manhattan, right?

Nanette (36:59):

Right. At the moment, we find that folks are pretty agnostic as to where they're cleaning up the plastic waste. And oftentimes people wanna help out in the places where the crisis is the most severe. Um, knowing that, you know, we're all in this together. So we're super excited about working with folks in the US and companies in the US to try and progress this issue, even if it's not happening at the, you know, national level with government. Um, we were super, super encouraged. I mean, there's no market like the US

Abigail (37:31):

Yeah. And we're gonna have to, it sounds like, recycle some of our own trash.

Nanette (37:36):

Yes. You know, the truth is, is we did get, and and, and I'm getting into the weeds here a little bit, but there are quite a few folks, uh, both government, um, we do work, we have a partnership with the U S A I D, um, as well as, you know, some US brands, a lot of them really want to geolocate their impact to the US. They wanna make sure they're doing right, um, you know, within their borders. And so have talked about, well, how can we, how can we really help within, you know, within the continental United States? And so we have been exploring, uh, groups that are willing to, uh, our, our problem is finding processors. There doesn't seem to be any, any lack of collectors, right? Yeah. Even these, even a Girl Scout's group wants to go out and clean up plastic on the beach on weekends, right?

Nanette (38:22):

So you, you, there is a high degree of engagement from, from the American population, but I think the processing capability is what we're trying to be very, very careful about. Because yeah, at the end of the day, it's our reputation. We need to make sure that we, we fully vetted some, some technologies haven't been, uh, approved a bit, a little bit controversial in the US. Yeah. Uh, but yeah, we're trying our best. So, but in the, in, in the meantime, we encourage everyone not to wait. You know, this is, there's no time, no pun intended, but there's no time to waste <laugh> on this issue. So please, wherever you can please help today. And, and let's start and let's start to, to your point, just start somewhere and, and hope to improve as we go, how we deal with plastic waste. .

Abigail (39:09):

Right. At least get it out of nature and then we can work on getting it all recycled. And then at some point we probably wanna consume less plastic.

Nanette (39:20):

No, no. We should. Absolutely. Not at some point we should be doing that today, <laugh>, right? So I mean, we say this at WWF all the time, right? There is that portion of plastic usage, which is absolutely essential. And you can, right, you know, we just came through COVID so everybody can understand, like just in the medical space, I think we'd all be a goner if we didn't have plastic in the medical space. So, sure. Um, you know, there are some very important applications around plastic, whether it's food security, uh, food safety, you know, all of that stuff. Just, you know, medical applications. So we should think about how do we reduce un-essential plastic use, right? Yeah. Um, that's something we need to be doing today because not only do we have credits that take care of the downstream problem, you need to address the upstream problem, right? Yeah. This is, credits is absolutely not our silver bullet to this. We this,

Abigail (40:13):

But you might be buying time.

Nanette (40:14):

You are buying time, sorry. For sure. And by the way, and I was saying this to, in one of the Greenpeace, uh, you know, comments that was made when I was in Hong Kong, I said, look, even we all wanna, I wanna live in a Greenpeace world. I mean, I do. And, and the truth is, is if, you know, tomorrow we had an absolutely perfect replacement for plastic. We had all the infrastructure built to produce it, all the companies, you know, put in, you know, all the investments to support it, and we could get out of plastic tomorrow. Let's just say that's, that happens. What, who's gonna clean up the 80 years worth of plastic debt that's already out there, that's like eight and a half billion tons. Somebody's gotta clean that up, right? Yeah. We can't just leave it floating out there for sure. So we need to, we need to think about a, a solution set, which includes upstream, you know, reduction of plastic usage and downstream cleaning up of plastic usage and, and everything in between in order to try and solve this problem. The good news is, is I feel much more confident that we can do this. We can be the generation that solves this problem because we do have what it takes, um, to solve it. Unlike in carbon, which feels a little bit more complicated, this is actually something we can do. And we've proven we can do it so far, uh, in the, the Philippines. And if we can do it here, holy cow, everybody else can do it too.

Abigail (41:37):

<laugh>. Um, it's a, it is just amazing. And I, and I have to say, you know, I've been working a lot in the, in the Blue tech space and seaweed plastic is on its way. I mean, companies like flexi and, uh, they're still in a bit of an exploratory phase, but we are not far at all from having, um, uh, really, um, you know, um,

Nanette (42:00):

Great organic substitutes.

Abigail (42:01):

Great substitutes that are completely biodegradable. Um, so I think, uh, but we probably won't get out of a world where we want our potato chips in a little bag that's, that that would, that's gonna be hard to turn around, especially in the United States. So, uh, tell me about where you are today. Are you, are you fundraising for this business? What, what's, what's going on? What are the next steps for you guys?

Nanette (42:26):

This brings me to why I, I talked about where we were in the beginning. So right now, um, because a lot of folks have taken quite an interest in the work we do, and we wanted to make sure we separated the governance of, you know, the standards as well as the sale of credits, which feels like a conflict of interest. We've actually separated the business into two. We've got a non-profit entity, um, which holds this and develops the standards. The eco label, um, does the consulting work. I wanted to make sure we, you know, we were keeping that in the nonprofit and helping as many people as we can, keeping it open source. Um, and then we have the for-profit business, which deals purely in the, you know, raising money through credits to support projects. So those are the two different things. 

Nanette (43:11):

And right now, uh, I'm sure our CEO would tell you that we're thinking very seriously about, uh, doing some fundraising for that business because we feel like it's reached a point where we can really help scale, um, a lot of the efforts around the world, there's enough momentum around plastics, especially because of the UN treaty. And by the way, when have you ever seen the UN do anything on time? So this is incredible that they are moving, uh, on schedule, with, to get  a real treaty out by 2025. So we think that it's time to go out and, uh, not that, you know, we, we lack funding necessarily, but I think what we need is what comes with the funding, right? If we can find partners that can help us surface the initiative and really, uh, set us up for success, um, in the markets that we wanna operate in, you know, get in front of folks, I, I mean, I can't possibly do that, you know, myself through my own network. So I think it's super important that we work with li like-minded, uh, partners who can really help us deliver real change on this issue.

Abigail (44:22):

I have a feeling that you're gonna get a lot of people behind you.  I just, I'm, there's this whole new generation of people that, that put mission before business in their business, and it's, it's really exciting. So, and I'm seeing a lot of funds pop up that are really mission driven, and it's not the fake stuff. They're really looking for, putting nature, climate, cleaning up pollution first. 

Nanette (44:58):

'd really like to say that, um, I don't think that those are mutually exclusive. I actually think that the work we do helps business, and it is not, it's not a choice between one or the other. I think that, and this is demonstrated by the big brands that we, we currently work with, who have not only leveraged this in terms of kind of pr, but this is really, really important to them as a, from a business that this is not, this is not csr. This has now become regular business practice for them. And I think that that is incredible, and I'm hoping that people will support brands that do that.

Abigail (45:41):

what advice would you have to new entrepreneurs who are diving into this mission driven world of, innovation? 

Nanette (46:28):

Yeah, don't ever give up hope. Right? And even if you don't understand necessarily where your passions are gonna lead you have some faith, you know, just put one steady foot in front of the other, trying to make the best decisions you can at each step. And you never know where this is gonna take you. I never thought I was gonna wind up in this space. Uh, but, you know, I don't know if it's fate or whatever gets you to where you're supposed to be. And, and even if you only make a little bit of difference, it's still the world needs it. Um, I mean, there is no time like now where the world needs people who are trying to do the right thing. So please don't ever give up. We have a duty to hope <laugh>.

Abigail (47:18):

I love it. 

CONCLUSION

Thank you Nanette for joining us today. I think Nanette’s story shows incredible humility - recognising with her HOPE fundraiser that in helping one problem, in this case raising money for schools through sales of bottled water, she had worsened another, ie plastic pollution. But what’s so inspiring is how she acted on that realization by creating the Plastic Credit Exchange aimed at managing plastic waste on a global scale. 

In addition to being a story of personal drive to make the world a better place, Nanette’s story shows us how countries like the Philippines are baring the brunt of the world's plastic problem. We also learn of new global plastic standards coming around the world thanks in part to Nanette’s work. 

Thank you for listening. Please follow the Happy Planet Podcast wherever you listen and leave us a rating and review - it really helps new listeners discover the show. I am the Executive Producer. The talented Dylan Heuer [hoyer] is our producer and editor. Composer GEORG BRANDL EGOFF created our theme music. Learn more about my work and get in touch by visiting happyplanetcapital.com.