HAPPY PLANET

Lisa Scali, serving up seaweed for personal and planetary health.

December 14, 2022 Abigail Carroll Season 1 Episode 6
HAPPY PLANET
Lisa Scali, serving up seaweed for personal and planetary health.
Show Notes Transcript

Meet Lisa Scali of Ocean’s Balance, a seaweed-based food startup specializing in staple pantry items. This is a particularly fun episode for me because Lisa and I met in graduate school at Columbia University’s School of International and Public Affairs (SIPA) many years ago. Since then our paths have crossed again and again with us both ending up in Maine aquaculture!  And to add to that, Lisa's business partner Mitchell Lench is also a SIPA alum. 

In this podcast we’ll learn:

  • How working for yourself is a game-changer
  • How Lisa’s European heritage and experience are helping her create award-winning products
  • Why Americans should eat more seaweed and why it should be locally farmed 
  • How seaweed is grown and the respective merits of different strains
  • How seaweed sequesters carbon
  • Where Ocean’s Balance is in their growth cycle and what it’s like raising money.
  • Why Maine is a good place to start a business.
  • Lisa’s advice for fellow entrepreneurs.

Also a huge thank you to Lisa for being my first guinea pig on this podcast. There was a bit of a learning curve and we had to do a second take! A supportive friend!

Mentioned in this episode:
Lisa Scali
Ocean's Balance
New England Ocean's Clusters
Gulf of Maine Research Institute
Maine Technology Institute
Katapult VC
Columbia University's School of International and Public Affairs

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HOST VO: Welcome to Happy Planet an impact economy podcast where we speak with entrepreneurs, investors, and thought leaders in search of profit and planetary health. I am your host Abigail Carroll. 

Today I’m welcoming a good friend to the podcast, Lisa Scali. As you will hear, our paths have intersected many times throughout our winding careers. As the co-owner of Ocean’s Balance, she’s part of a growing effort to capitalize on the nutritional and ecological benefits of seaweed. You heard her company mentioned in episode 4 as part of my conversation with GMRI’s Blaine Grimes. It’s great to take a deeper dive to understand how Lisa is carving out a US market for locally grown seaweed, working with fishermen and women in Maine, and developing new and delicious products.

Abigail (00:08:55):

Welcome to the podcast, Lisa.

Lisa (00:09:11):

Hi, Abigail. It's great to be here today.

Abigail (00:09:14):

Well, I am going to let our listeners in on, uh, our personal history. Just for the sake of full disclosure, um, you and I first met at grad school at Columbia University, I think probably, if not the first day, the first week. Definitely. And that was a two year program. We both lived in Paris at the same time, and then a few years later, we ended up living just blocks away from each other in Portland, Maine. And both working in the maine aquaculture industry. It's been quite a, quite, We've had like parallel lives.

Lisa (00:09:51):

Yeah, we have. It's been so funny. It's, and I love telling that story. I love how we, we basically did so many of the same things without even knowing it. Like we, we were in Paris for how many years before we actually ran into each other. That that part I love

Abigail (00:10:06):

<laugh>. Well, it is funny. I mean, we've, we've had, we've intersected and, and now sort of in, you know, last few years we've been able to actually see more of each other and, and really build a good friendship. Um,yeah. But it, it is really funny that we've both came from this perspective of, you know, you know, France and global affairs, and, uh, we were both in banking for a while, um, and, and that we both ended up in the, the Maine aquaculture industry. Um, I sort of got in it by accident, but I, I feel like you had a, a different sort of way in. You were much more thoughtful about it and decisive. So can you tell me a little bit about that?

Lisa (00:10:47):

Yeah. Oh yeah, I'd love to. So, I guess if I had to describe myself with one word, it would be foodie. Um, I grew up in an Italian family where all we talked about and still talk about is food. You know, we, we put a meal on the table, and no sooner is are the plate set than we're talking about what are we going to eat at the next meal. We are very obsessed with food in my family, in, in a good way, in a healthy way. Um, and so it's always been an important part of my life. And, and when I had the very good fortune to work in Paris for all those years, um, my love and knowledge of food was really broadened and deepened with the introduction of French cuisine. Um, I,I had a reputation among my banking colleagues as the person to go to for restaurant recommendations in Paris, because I just loved the restaurant scene, and I was so taken with the food.

Lisa (00:11:41):

So the, it was, it was part of me in a way that I could never deny and that I always wanted to embrace more. Um, and when I moved to Maine, to Portland in particular, I was really struck by the food scene that we have here. I mean, you know, how many James Beard Award nominations are awarded to Portland every year? The food scene is just thriving and exciting and delicious. And I, I, as soon as I arrived, I was like, God, I'd love to be involved in this food scene somehow, but I just wasn't sure how to make that happen.

Abigail (00:12:12):

What year did you arrive in Portland? Sorry, Interrupt.

Lisa (00:12:16):

No, it was fine. It was 2006.

Abigail (00:12:18):

And you came here because of a fellow?

Lisa (00:12:21):

Because of a fellow who's now my husband, Yes. <laugh>. Yes. And, um, we have, you know, we've settled here and we've, we're raising a family here, and I'm, I'm very happy to be in Maine. Uh, this is definitely where I needed to be, even when I lived in Paris, as much as I loved it, I felt very landlocked in Paris. The Seine is not the same as an ocean. Um, and I'm so happy to be so close to the water and to hear seagulls out my window every day is just, it just, it grounds me. And I think for the rest of my life, I'll always live by the water. It's really important to me.

Abigail (00:12:58):

I'm with you on that.

Lisa (00:12:59):

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, so yeah, this food scene is swirling around me and, and I get a call one day from a family friend who like us, has kind of a parallel life. Um, he also went to SIPA And he, then he went and lived abroad for a few years and made his way back to Maine. Um, and he was very interested and still is very interested in impact investing and very interested in the, in the seaweed and aquaculture space in Maine. He founded a seaweed company. He founded Ocean's Balance. And the Ink was still drying on the paper when he called me and said, So what do you think? I've just started this company. Would you like to do sales and marketing for a seaweed company? And I didn't hesitate for a second. I said, Yes, that's exactly what I wanna do, <laugh>.

Lisa (00:13:50):

And I haven't looked back. And so it feeds my, my food, the food soul of me. And it also feeds a part that was just kind of ringing in my head. If you need to make something yourself, rather than working for somebody else, you really need to make something your own and, and just create it from scratch with someone. Yes. But something that you can call your own. And this Ocean's Balance project has just been exactly that. It's been such an adventure, and it's been very satisfying, both from a culinary perspective and from a personal accomplishment perspective.

Abigail (00:14:28):

Well, um, you guys have done a great job, and I wanna get into your product, but just on that note, um, it's also very, you know, it's, there's a, there's a risk return there. You have this wonderful sense of accomplishment, but you, it is, you're always kind of dangling off a cliff when you're in a startup. You've got payroll to make, you've got, you know, you've got responsibilities to others in a way that you just don't have, even if you are, you know,have a big management job in a, in a public company.

Lisa (00:15:00):

That's right. Have you felt that it's with you every Oh yeah. It's with you every single day. Um, it's not like you can just say, Oh, it's five o'clock, I can go home now. <laugh>, there's always more you can do. There's always something you haven't done, and there's always something that desperately needs to be done immediately. Um, that part is what gives you the drive to keep going. It, I think it gives you energy in a way that just kind of doing it for somebody else doesn't, Um, when you're doing it for yourself, it's just, it's like, Well, this is yours. You're not gonna screw this up. Right? You want this to work. And that, that's really motivating for me. Um, yeah, it can be tiring at times for sure. And when you're, you know, juggling the rest of life, it can get complicated, but it is, at the end of the day, very, very rewarding, um, on a daily basis.

Abigail (00:15:49):

That's amazing. Um, I, I completely empathize with everything you've just said, <laugh>. Um, alright. So, but,but when your, when your partner asked you to join, he asked you to join a seaweed food company. So you were on the cutting edge of a whole new industry making food in the United States. This is something that, you know, in Asia, they've been using it forever, eating it forever. And in the States, we've been using it mostly as an additive, but you are trying to put seaweed forward in food products. Um, and, and this is there you, so you're not just starting a company, You're really a pioneer in this whole industry. Tell me about that. Tell me about, you know, trying to, trying to convince Americans, um, that seaweed is something that they should be incorporating their daily diets.

Lisa (00:16:46):

Yeah. And that is, that is exactly what we're doing on a daily basis. Um, I think I should start by sharing a, a shocking statistic. Um, 95% of the seaweed that is consumed in the United States is imported from Asia. Wow. And that is a number that can be reduced easily because there is so much seaweed that can be, that is produced and that grows here in the United States. And that should be consumed, not only because it's good for you, and I'll get into all of that in a minute, but just because of the, the environmental impact of just eating something that's produced domestically rather than Right. Carbon footprint or, Yeah. The carbon footprint is just much smaller. So, so there's that, and that's like, that's a great motivator right there. But then seaweed itself, seaweed is one of the most nutritious foods that you're ever going to eat.

Lisa (00:17:43):

It is a natural source of iodine. Iodine is something that is really important for our thyroid, which regulates our metabolism. If we don't have enough iodine, we feel sluggish. We don't digest our food as well. And when you and I were growing up, we used to get our iodine from iodized salt, right? But most people now eat fancy sea salt that doesn't have iodine added to it. So there aren't that many foods that naturally contain iodine. Seaweed is a great exception to that. So iodine, first and foremost, a great reason to, to consume it. But it also has lots of iron and, and calcium and potassium and magnesium, like all of these important minerals. It's got, um,prebiotics, it's got antioxidants, it, everything you need to be healthy. We, we like to call it mother nature's multivitamin.   Yes. And it has all these natural glutamate.

Lisa (00:18:39):

So this word umami that people talk about seaweed is packed full of it. And it, those natural glutamate enhance the flavor of the food that it's, that it's mixed with. So it, it acts as a natural flavor enhancer, um, in a way that is much more healthy. And I'd say more interesting. So very good for our bodies as, as a source of food for the planet. It is a very good source of food for when we think about, um, sustainability. So when we grow seaweed and, and at ocean's balance, we farm it and we wild harvest when we're farming, we talk about the fact that seaweed requires no, obviously no arable land. Cause it grows in the water, no fresh water. Cause it's growing in ocean water and no fertilizer. So there's no negative impact. And as it grows, it actually absorbs carbon. That's its vitamin.

Lisa (00:19:39):

That's what it needs to grow. So in absorbing carbon, it's reducing ocean acidification, which is really important for the shellfish industry, for example, you know that well, from growing your oysters. Yeah. Um, having a, a water level that is, is low in, in acid will result in much healthier and harder shells. So it cleans the water as it grows and there, and it improves the biodiversity of the water that it grows in. There are more fish and more kinds of fish that are observed in areas where seaweed grows. So it's incredibly important for the planet. And as, as the population grows and we need to feed this place, we should be thinking about feeding people in a way that doesn't harm the planet. And then finally, from a social perspective, um, especially here in Maine, um, we, we partner with, with lobster women, fishermen, people who spend their lives out on the water, um, they farm seaweed for us.

Lisa (00:20:44):

And seaweed grows kind of counter to the traditional fishing season. You put the seed in the water in November and you pull it out of the water in April, may. So it grows over the winter, which is traditionally a slower time for fish. Um, so it allows, uh, these lobster women and fishermen to, uh, diversify their income. Um, so they're not reliant on fish only. Um, they get to use equipment that they already have. They get to stay on the water doing what they love, and they're contributing to a growing industry. So from a a social perspective, from an economic perspective to Maine, it's really important.

Abigail (00:22:38):

That's interesting. So are, are some of these fisher people that you're, you're, um, uh, contracting to do this work? Are they creating their own farms or do you have a farm that they're working on? Or how does that work?

Lisa (00:22:53):

So most of the Fisher people are creating their own farms. Um, yeah. You know, they know the area where they fish, they know their water better than we do, and it's closer to home for them. So it makes more sense for them to have their own farms. We do have farms closer to, to home, if you will, to us. And, um, we, we farm those in, in partnership with, with other organizations. Sometimes, sometimes some other fishermen. Um, but I would say most of the, the fishermen who are not as close to Portland are using their own. Yes.

Abigail (00:23:24):

No, that's great. Um, it's, uh, it seems like it's a, it's kind of a no brainer as, you know, the lobster season slows down to be able to do this. And tell me, like, are there, are there, what are some of the challenges of growing seaweed? Is it a straightforward thing or are there diseases? Are there, you know, what are, what are some of the things these guys face out there on the water?

Lisa (00:23:47):

So, seaweed, seaweed farming kind of starts in a lab, um, where the, the baby seaweeds are created, if you will, the little, the little seeds. Um, and it's, it's a cool process. It's a tank that, um, there's recirculating water in that tank, and you have pipes that are PVC pipes that are wrapped with, with string. And you release seaweed spores into that water, and the spores eventually attach themselves to that string. And for like the first week, it just kind of looks like it's string kind of floating around there. But after a week or so, you'll notice like a paleish brownish color, and then a few days more go by and eventually it looks like, you know, some moss is growing on there. And then by the end of the month you have, you know, completely covered string with the little baby seaweeds that are starting to long enough that you, you can see them individually. And at that point, it's time to put them in the ocean. So during that time when it's growing in the tank, um, sometimes there, there is a risk of, of other things that might have been floating around with the contamination

Abigail (00:25:02):

When

Lisa (00:25:02):

They were released, contaminating. So that's something you have to deal with. Um, but let's,

Abigail (00:25:07):

And how long is that? Sorry? How long is that timeframe? Like how long are they in the lab?

Lisa (00:25:11):

About a month

Abigail (00:25:12):

About a month, Okay. Yeah. Wow. Yeah.

Lisa (00:25:15):

And then, um, it's time to take them out onto the water and plant them. You see my air quotes there. Um, and at that point, you're going to wrap that string around nautical rope that is attached to buoys on either end, and you let that rope kind of sink fall into the water, so it's underwater. And five, six months later, you will have a 15 foot blade of seaweed that you can harvest. Like wow. A whole, a whole rope full of them <laugh>.

Abigail (00:25:46):

Right. It's amazing. You, you basically create a forest, a long forest of, of, of it's, And it, is it all kelp that you're farming now? Or is, are there other types of seaweeds?

Lisa (00:25:56):

We're far, we're farming two different kinds of kelp where, um, sugar kelp and skinny kelp and skinny kelp, as the name might suggest, is, um, just a bit thinner. It doesn't have the, the frilly edge that, um, sugar kelp has. That kind of looks like a lasagna noodle. It's, it's straighter, this skinny kelp. They just thrive in waters in Maine, they love all that nutrient rich water. The, the tides are pretty strong here, and the currents are strong. So, you know, there's plenty of nutrients that they can absorb as the water's swirling around them. It just makes for great growing conditions.

Abigail (00:26:43):

So in fact, it's just the water passing through them. It's like oysters, except they're not filtering technically. Right. But it's the, it's the exposure to that water that that brings them, transports them, their, their food, basically.

Lisa (00:26:56):

Yes, exactly.

Abigail (00:26:58):

That's, that's really interesting. And it sounds like a lot less work. No bag flipping <laugh>, no

Lisa (00:27:03):

Bag, no bad flipping, but you do need to, you, you do need to go out there and check your lines. Um, Yeah. Cause you know, God knows what is floating around in the water and storms and things, so you do need to, to check and make sure that the lines don't get crossed..

Abigail (00:28:00):

. Have you been out on these kelp farms and what's it like?

Lisa (00:28:44):

I have been out, um, when in the earlier days I did go out and help check lines and things, Um, tell you, I never had the proper boots and my feet were always frozen, solid <laugh>. one thing I do remember, we were out on a very, very foggy day and, um, you could barely see two feet in front of you. Um, the person we were with knew the water really well, so he knew where we were. Um, but I didn't really, and all of like, out of nowhere, just another boat just kind of appeared out of the water. It was really like a movie set. And it was actually somebody that we knew and he was just coming to, coming by to say hello. But the way he literally just appeared out of the fog, it was so cool and ethereal and very atmospheric. It helped me forget I was really cold.

Abigail (00:29:44):

<laugh>, I remember that. I remember being on the water in the winter, sort of with icebergs kind of floating by. And there was something just really like exciting about being on the water when you, you know, normally most people think you're not supposed to be out there on the water. There's something really kind of exciting and exhilarating about that. Um, so I totally

Lisa (00:30:06):

Get it. It's so gorgeous out there in winter. It's beautiful.

 

VO: Stick around to learn more about Ocean Balance’s award winning products and the future of the company. 

 

BREAK: Spark No 9 and Maine Venture Fund

 

Vo: Welcome back to Happy Planet. 

Abigail (00:30:09):

so you've got the sort of vertical chain of production of seaweed, and then what happens? How does seaweed end up in our, in our shelves? 

Lisa (00:30:48):

Yeah. So we have a line of pantry items that contain seaweed. And what we are trying to do is to put seaweed into products that people already know and are comfortable eating. So that seaweed is no longer that thing you eat at a sushi restaurant. We want it to be something you eat every single day. And it doesn't have to be limited to sushi or miso soup. So we're creating products that are a little, you know, off the chart in terms of, or out of the box, I'd like to say out of the box in terms of what you would associate seaweed with. So one of our, one of our more innovative products are, are pasta sauces. So these are classic tomato sauces. They're delicious. Um, one is a spicy and one is a traditional marinara. Um, and each of them contains seaweed. Um, they are, you know, we're, we take a lot of care and put a lot of thought into the production and what, what goes into them.

Lisa (00:31:48):

these sauces that are on their own very tasty, and this is coming from an Italian woman to say that they're like, they're tasty. That's a real, that's a, that's a, a real badge of honor right there. Um, but because we've added that seaweed to this tasty sauce, all of a sudden they become a great source of that famous iodine, but also iron and potassium and calcium and protein. So it's a really healthy sauce, and it's one that you can feed to your family easily because everybody likes pasta sauce, Right. And right. It's, it's just a great way to help people transition to including seaweed in their diet a little more regularly. So pasta sauces, are one thing. Um, we have a line of seasonings as well. Um, there are three that are classic spice blends and, they're lemon pepper, chili lime, and a, and a seafood combination of, of, uh, spices. And these are mixed with seaweed and there's no added salt. So the salinity is coming from the seaweed itself. And for people who are concerned about sodium intake,

Abigail (00:33:06):

Great chip.

Lisa (00:33:06): And, um, I'm very happy to say that one of them, the chili lime actually just won a Sophie award, which

Abigail (00:33:17):

Is Wow. Uh,

Lisa (00:33:19):

Thank you. Yeah, it's, um, it's,

Abigail (00:33:21):

Congratulations.

Lisa (00:33:21):

It's put, it's put together by the Specialty Food Association and they recognize excellence in the specialty food space. And the Chile Lime won a gold medal in the most recent round of competition, which was just this spring. So very exciting about that. Wow. Yeah.

Abigail (00:33:37):

That's exciting. Now, does that help get you on a bigger map and people paying attention to these, IYeah, it is.

Lisa (00:33:48):

It is. And it's yet another award that we can add to our list, and it really, you know, helps us say with confidence that we are an award winning brand. those three seasonings, and then we have, um, three sprinkles. We call them seaweed sprinkles, and these are inspired by Japanese furikake. And furikake is, um, a rice seasoning and it's, it's, it's a blend of black and white sesame seeds and seaweed, and then different flavors. 

So we wanted to, we wanted to keep it fun, but we also wanted it to be healthy. So we, in ours, we've eliminated all the oil. We've really drastically reduced the sugar and the salt. So they're great on avocado toast and egg sandwiches and noodles and baked potatoes and grilled fish and grilled meat. I we also offer a, a kelp puree and mm-hmm.

Lisa (00:35:41):

<affirmative>, The kelp puree is for people who know seaweed already and are looking to include it in their diet, perhaps because they have an iodine deficiency we also find that, um, seniors are, are very well, very aware of the fact that as they age, their metabolism is slowing. So they're trying to just help keep their metabolism in check. So they're looking for iodine. So this kelp puree is, is, is seaweed mixed with water and lemon juice, and it's a shelf stable ingredient. So you can open it up, take a spoonful and stir it into your sauce, your smoothie, your soup, your stew, your salad dressing. It's really versatile and it's super easy to use. And that was a finalist for a good food award, um, a couple years back. It's a great product. Very unique.

 

Abigail (00:36:40):

And does that add that sort of umami flavor to whatever you're stirring it into? Or what is the flavor profile exactly of that? Yeah. Interesting. Yeah.

Lisa (00:36:49):

So to try it, to try it on its own, um, it's, it tastes like the sea. It's like a, a vegan oyster in a way. It's got a nice little brine to it. Um, it's lovely. So I, I use it if I'm trying to make like a vegan Caesar salad dressing, I'll use this to replace the anchovies. Yeah. Oh. Cause it does have some, you know, it has a nice sodium or a salt content. This the flavor from the, from the salt of the ocean. So you can use it, uh, for substitutions like that. But let's say, yeah, you're just putting it into your tomato soup, which is actually very delicious. Um, the umami of tomatoes and the umami of the seaweed blend together, and you've just got this incredibly flavorful tomato sauce. So I love putting it into soups, uh, and tomato soup. Excuse me.

Lisa (00:37:36):

I love putting it into soups. Um, also like sometimes playing around and doing a sweet and salty thing. Yeah. So sometimes I'll put it in desserts. Um, I make a, a kelp, I make a kelp fudge, um, Oh wow. For where it's, it's like kind of like a, a white fudge. So it's got a lot of cream and sugar and, um, lyles golden syrup, which is kind of like a, a car, a cousin to caramel, if you will. You boil that all up and you add the seaweed to it, and it's got this great texture because it, this fudge is super smooth, but then you have these little bits of seaweed in there, and you've got that super delicious sweetness from the fudge and that, you know, savory flavor from the seaweed. It's an amazing combination. Oh, that sounds amazing. My fudge is delicious. Yeah.

Abigail (00:38:26):

<laugh>. So is that, is that a line or,

Lisa (00:38:31):

And then we have, um, we have organic dried products. So we have, um, whole leaf and flake products, all of which are, are organic and they are in reusable compostable bags or tins. Um, always trying to be mindful about what we put our products into. And those are, you know, you use Kombu to make miso soup. You use wakame to make seaweed salad, but you can also use it just to make a regular salad. Um, and then dulse, which is everybody's favorite seaweed, it's, uh, native to the North Atlantic. It has a wonderful smokey, meaty flavor to it. And it's the one that, um, is often used as a meat substitute. You have to call it the Vegan Bacon of the Sea. Um, it's the one I'll eat out of the bag straight. It's that delicious. It's the one that I'll fry up in a little bit of oil and I'll add it to a sandwich of lettuce and tomato and make a D lt instead of a B lt.

Lisa (00:39:31):

It's mind blowingly delicious. And, you know, I'll also do fun stuff like wrap it around scallops, again, replacing bacon, bacon wrapped scallops, you 

Abigail (00:40:17):

So, I mean, it's just amazing, this huge sort of variety of products. When you are in a grocery store, do people find you in a specific aisle or are you in a bunch of different aisles? Like how do, how do you manage question?

Lisa (00:40:34):

It's a great question, and it's one that we, we think about a lot. Um, the products, depending on, on what they are, kind of define where they'll be found. Um, there isn't really a, a seaweed category per se. Um, there, many stores have an international section where you will find dried seaweeds. And the, the Dried flakes and Whole Leaf products that I mentioned, um, tend to to be found in grocery stores. There, the pasta sauces are in the pasta sauce aisle, um, you know, along with all the other pasta sauces. So the challenge there is to create a packaging that allows the consumer, who generally looks at a product for about six seconds before they make a decision. Wow. So to communicate very quickly and effectively what this sauce is and why it's different from everything else on the shelf and why they should buy it.

Lisa (00:41:29):

So pasta sauce for there. And then the, the six seasonings that I mentioned, um, are all in the spice shelf, um,of the grocery store, and that's another very crowded shelf. Um, and one of the reasons that we, we worked really hard to, to have six products as opposed to just three, was so that we could command a little bit more shelf space and capture the consumer's eye when they're looking at all of the various things that you can buy on that shelf. Yeah. There's so many things in the spice shelf. So the, the challenge is to have packaging that communicates well. And, um, we're actually going through a, a, an exercise right now to kind of update our packaging, and it's almost ready for prime time. I'm not gonna share too much about it just yet, but I'm very excited, um, about the direction we're moving in. And I'm really excited to, to show you what our, our new packaging is gonna look like. It's gonna be very exciting.

Abigail (00:42:29):

Oh, I can't wait to see. So, I mean, there is this whole education thing we touched on earlier, but, but what do you do? What, you know, what are you sort of trying to communicate through the packaging? Like how do you, how do you do it? It just seems like such a heavy lift. Um, although I know there's momentum in this category, so there is, so there is that might, that might help at this point.

Lisa (00:42:54):

It does. No, there's definitely momentum in this category. You know, celebrity chefs like David Chang have done a lot to raise the profile of seaweed and, and others, um, as well. Jamie Oliver, um, did a whole thing. He actually he went on a diet and, and made seaweed a big part of his diet. He lost a lot of weight, Just talked a lot about the, the nutritional benefits of it. So it is making waves kind of, um, up at the top where, where people are seeing it. Then on a, on a more kind of day to day basis, when we think about the, the people that we're trying to get in front of, to ta to tell about our products, you know, obviously there are millennials and the millennials are just hyper focused on making good decisions about what they eat, right?

Lisa (00:43:57):

They wanna, they're trying to eat locally, they're trying to be mindful of the environment, and they, they also want it to be nutritious. So seaweed definitely ticks all the boxes for them. Um, parents who are looking for healthy food that's that, that their children will actually eat. Um, little kids know a lot about seaweed, surprisingly. Um, you know, there are some seaweed snacks out there that I think have helped, um, those products are, are imported. Yes. But it has introduced children to the idea of seaweed and just the concept is no longer such a foreign one. And Right. I spend time in grocery stores, you know, telling people about our products and, and, and doing sampling. And it's always such a fun conversation when a mom will walk by with some kids or a dad and, you know, I'll gently I'll say, ask the parents, So could I let, could I offer some pasta sauce to, to your kids? And usually they'll say yes. And so the kids will try the sauce and they're like, Oh, this is really good. And then I'll tell them, Oh, you know, there's seaweed in that pasta sauce. Like seaweed, we love seaweed, Mom, Dad, can we get this? You know, it's, it's great.

Abigail (00:45:07):

Too cute. Too cute. Who can say no to their kids?

Lisa (00:45:11):

Because they know to their kids. And so there's, you know, there's, there is that momentum building, but then you do spend a lot of time, people, I think on a certain level, they know that, that they should be eating more seaweed. But a lot of people don't know the reasons why. They're not fully aware of all the nutritional benefits, and they don't understand the level at which seaweed can be impactful in terms of preserving our oceans. And yeah, those are great conversations to have, but it's like one by one, right? You just keep talking to people, keep talking to people. Um, there are more and more players entering the market, so I'd say the the sound level is moving up and yeah, we're all, you know, we're all talking about the same things. So it's, it's just awareness building. And you, you do that by bringing out new products, by going into stores and talking to people by, you know, doing, going to schools of social media, going to school. Yeah. I mean, my daughter will say that I've been to visit her school a couple times and talk to her ki her fellow students, about seaweed. It's true. And the kids love it. Um, do you, do you feed them seaweed? I feed them that fudge. They all love that <laugh>

Abigail (00:46:27):

<laugh>. Very good, very good. When's that coming up?

Lisa (00:46:32):

<laugh> soon. But I do, I do give them pieces of seawee too, like the dulls that I mentioned. That's such a flavorful one. And to let them try that, you know, their eyes open wide and they're, Wow, this is amazing. And, and it's not just little kids. Um, my father and mother were visiting not too long ago, and my dad and I were just talking about, you know, different things with the company. And I was talking about Dulse for some reason, and I realized he'd never tried it before. And my dad is very old school Italian, you know, so if it doesn't have pasta sauce on it, and it isn't pasta, it's not a given, he is going to eat it. So I was like, Dad, why don't you just try these, these dulse flakes and tell me what you think. I think you might like them.

Lisa (00:47:13):

Took a few, you put it in his tongue, you let it melt the way I told him to. And he looked at me, he's like, Lisa, this is delicious. And I said, Yeah, dad, I know, and it's really good for you <laugh>. And he has a couple of health issues that seaweed could definitely help. You know, his metabolism is definitely slowing and his thyroid isn't perfect. I'm like, Dad, you should be eating more seaweed. And he said, Well, if it tastes like this, I think I will. It was just, it was such a great moment, you know, a great father-daughter moment and the, like I say, it's one by one, um, those conversations, but the, the moment the momentum builds each day, and it's, it's a very exciting time to be in this space.

 

Abigail (00:59:37):

So I wanna say something cuz I want this to fit back. I'm gonna retrofit this. Um, so I'm just gonna something but I didn't, Yeah, I just wanna perfectly clear. So, um, you're, you've got a whole slew of products. Many of them have won awards or a runner up for awards or nominate for awards. You are making all these products yourself, You are designing them and figure, figuring them out yourself. Is that correct? 

Lisa (01:00:08):

We are a very food focused group, I have to say. Um, we're all really foodie and it's important as we think about new products and, um, we, we test a lot. We talk about we think are good ingredients. We, we, you know, come up with ideas. Some of them are actually really bad. Uh, some of them are terrific. Um, and we work with people whose opinions we respect. Um, so yes, it, it, the ideas start with us. Um, depending on the product, sometimes we make them, sometimes we work with a co-manufacturer who has, you know, the big machines to, to make the, the product. Um, but at the end of the day, the ideas are oceans balanced to start with. Yes.

Abigail (01:00:56):

Right, right. Everything's starting in your kitchen with your, your culinary tradition, your familiar tradition, your experience, your travel, It's all coming through in these products.

Lisa (01:01:09):

Oh yeah. I mean we, we try to get together around the holidays each year and everybody brings a dish, um, to share, um, or to, and it's amazing what people come up with. We, we, we've never said like, Oh, bring a seaweed dish, but everybody tries to bring things that are made with seaweed and we've just come up with such fun, delicious, exciting ideas and recipes and, you know, the love of food really binds us just as it binds my family. I'd say it binds the company too.

Abigail (00:47:53):

So, um, uh, just sort of, it's, you've got distribution all over the country, uh, and that's super exciting. Congratulations on that. I mean, that's just huge. Um, and, uh, I think I remember you telling me once that there were some, some Asian grocery stores. Have they been big supporters in general? Has the have, do you feel like the Asian American community is, is sort of early adopters in this because it's culturally familiar to them? Are they interested in the, you know, these hybrid sauces where you've got a little bit of the west, a little bit of the east? Like, tell me a little bit about that.

Lisa (00:48:33):

Yeah, so our, you're right, our retail distribution has grown tremendously. We're in about 800 stores now across the country. And that number keeps growing every day. Um, and it's just a very exciting time to be, to be a seaweed company in the United States. And yes, many Asian comp in many Asian grocery stores have picked up our products. The, the product that I love selling to Asian grocery stores is the kelp puree because, um, Asian people have a, a very intimate relationship with seaweed. You know, they ate it, they eat it every day. It's such a, a part of their daily diet. And when they try to kelp puree, um, and this is kind of anecdotal from going to lots of trade shows and, and, and having lots of different people stop by, um, people who have grown up eating seaweed as a child, when they taste the kelp puree, it's, it's just fascinating to watch their facial expression. They just like get this look of like, Oh, I've gone back to my childhood. It's like, Proust love it. Yeah, yeah, exactly. It is, it is the madleine, it's their madleine. Exactly. And I love that. And I love the fact that they appreciate the product, not only because it's nutritious and, and environmentally, you know, compelling and all that. They just love the way it tastes. I love that. So great to, to see that love of such a great product in a very pure form. So that's been a lot of fun.

Abigail (00:49:59):

Yeah. Outside of food production, which you're in, like, what are some of the other things about seaweed or applications for seaweed that you think are really exciting right now?

Lisa (00:51:46):

Oh, that's a great question. So there are so many different applications for seaweed food, of course, is what we're looking at right now. But, um, there is a lot of work being done in terms of packaging, um, using seaweed to make consumer product packaging. Um, so it'll be much less harmful, you know, getting rid of all this plastic. Um, it's also being used a lot in, um, animal feed and pet food and on the animal feed side. So this is, you know, cattle and livestock and things like that. It's being added to their feed, one because it's healthy, and two, because it enables digestion to happen a bit more easily. And, um, I'm sure everybody knows cattle contribute massively to global warming and, you know, to the general pollution of the air. And so by feeding them seaweed, you know, they're just not burping or farting as much. And so they're just helping that helps keep all of that in check and reduce it. So that's, that's becoming more widely accepted, um, in terms of cattle feed and, you know, developing new products for, for the livestock industry. But pet feed

Abigail (00:53:01):

For sure, does the, does the seaweed have the same effect on humans?

Lisa (00:53:05):

It does. So people put kombu into their beans, all kinds of bean dishes because it will help break down the beans a little bit and just make them easier to digest. And that's just a gentle way of saying, you know, <laugh>, you,

Abigail (00:53:24):

I think, think that just sounds like a tremendous selling point.

Lisa (00:53:59):

Digestion is part food, right?

Abigail (00:54:00):

Of course, of course. Um, and well that's, that's really interesting. Would you, are you, is that part of your plan to go on to other areas or are you sticking with food, you going long on food? What's the, what's the big vision?

Lisa (00:54:16):

So food for now, for sure, there's just, we have a lot more that we can do with food. Um, the pet industry is something that is also interesting and, you know, we're, we're looking at that as well. So I, I don't for the moment see us wanting to create alternative packaging solutions, but we might be part of the, the process, if

Lisa (00:54:39):

You will.

Abigail (00:54:40):

Yeah.

Lisa (00:54:40):

Um, yeah,

Abigail (00:54:42):

That would be exciting to sell seaweed in seaweed. Um, yeah, uh, really just such an exciting sector and I know that in, you know, you're in over 800 stores and you're, you're well into the seven figure, you know, revenues. It's super exciting. How, how does that mean? How many years has this been? How long has it taken to get here?

Lisa (00:55:08):

So the, the line that we are proud to call our own really came to be in in 2018. And yeah, so we've been, we've been marketing that and adding to that since then. And it was the, I think the stars aligned in terms of, you know, the growing popularity of seaweed and, um, the, the acceptance and desire to grow it here in Maine. 

Abigail (00:56:51):

Totally. For sure. So tell me a little bit about Maine, because you know, you are in this, you know, Maine seemsMaine is exploding right now, You know, everybody's moving to Maine. There's a lot of innovation. We have the roo Center, we've got the ocean clusters, we've got gMRI building a fund, um, uh, and, and then we've got sort of the MTIs are do you feel like you've, you're getting a lot of support from the maine, the maine ecosystem. Is that been, you know, certainly you're giving jobs to people on the water, um, but are you are as a young company, are you getting support from the main ecosystem?

Lisa (00:57:29):

Oh yes, definitely. I mean, I'd say seaweed companies are kind of the, one of the darlings right now in Maine. Um, so there is a lot of help out there from a mentoring perspective, um, from a, a technical assistance perspective, um, financing, there's a lot of good things happening out there and we've tried to be really thoughtful about how we approach the help that is there. You know, we don't wanna go to the well too many times we're really, um, we, when we have a specific question or a specific need or a specific idea, then we will talk to the appropriate people. And it's, it's very, Maine is a small place, so word gets around quickly about, um, you know, innovations in the seaweed industry in general. And that's also great because it just keeps that momentum building and, and, and getting faster. But yes, we have felt tremendous support here in Maine and, um, I'm, I'm really happy to be here in this space right now.

Abigail (00:58:29):

That's great. So you've got all this momentum, you're coming up with new packaging, you've got, um, you know, you're, you're making making good money now and, uh, how do what, like what are the next steps?

Lisa (00:58:46):

So, you know, 800 stores sounds like a great number, doesn't it? But there's a lot more stores in the country, um, and we have, we have just lots more work to do, um, to, to keep telling our story and to keep coming out with innovative products and make sure that they are of the best quality possible. Keep winning awards and just we, you know, we, we want to be a brand no matter where we are found in the store that people recognize. And that is, uh, a goal that takes time and persistence and needs to be very thoughtfully done. And I think we have found the right combination of people and messaging and products to make that happen. And so we're just going for it.

Abigail (01:01:37):

That's wonderful. Um, oh, so you going out to the market, you're gonna fundraise. How have you, how have you built this company financially?

Lisa (01:01:45):

So we bootstrapped for a long time. Um, and I'm sure that's not a, an uncommon story. Um, we did a round of financing last year and we are doing, um, another, we're doing another round right now, um, that we hope to finish up by the end of the summer, early fall. Um, you know, as I mentioned, we're expanding that sales force, right? So there's, there are more expenses that come and um, some of the production ideas we have, um, are also a bit capital intensive. So there's lots of good uses, uh, for this money that we're raising and, um, we know that it will be transformational for us over the next two years.

Abigail (01:02:25):

That's great. So what advice do you have to other entrepreneurs out there who might be, you know, in your 2018, you know, just coming up with a product and a dream and um, and a vision for the, a better, happier world?

Lisa (01:02:41):

Yeah. Make sure you really love it. Make sure you, you, you have to love it because if you don't love it, nobody else is going to. So you have to be very committed to your idea. I think you have to have a very clear message and like why you're doing what you're doing and why it's different. Um, mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I think it's important to be different, and this is gonna sound interesting what I'm about to say. You have to be patient, but you really have to be impatient too. So like, you have to get things going, but it's always gonna take longer than you think. Um, but that isn't a reason to slow down. It just means you should, you know, throw a few more things out out there and just always have a lot of things going on at once. Um, and just, you know, make sure you can handle it from a, a financial perspective and make sure you believe in what you're doing. Cuz that is the most important thing. I think one, one of the reasons that I'm successful when I present our products is that my passion really comes through as I hope it's come through during our conversation today. Genuine passion can't be faked and it's, yeah, it's, people recognize it and it's what spurs people to make decisions and it's what spurs people to make change. So your genuine enthusiasm and your genuine commitment will take you far.

Abigail (01:04:07):

That's beautiful, Beautiful <laugh>. Well it's been so great having you here today. Uh, Lisa, thank you so much. 

 

CONCLUSION





Have you incorporated seaweed into your diet? If not, has this podcast encouraged you to do so? Feel free to share your thoughts via email or social media. 

 

I hope you enjoyed our conversation with Lisa Scali. Since the recording of our podcast, I am delighted to report that Lisa closed the first half of their Seed round and the Norwegian VC firm Katapult is one of their investors. They have also been awarded a NOAA grant to study sustainable seed production for North Atlantic kelp aquaculture. Their newest product, the award-winning Seaweed Seasonings, is now at  Raley’s, a Northern California grocery chain boasting 115 locations. And let’s not forget the seaweed! Lisa says they are preparing to plant this season’s crops now. Wow, all great news.

 

Thank you for listening. Please follow the Happy Planet Podcast wherever you listen and leave us a rating and review - it really helps new listeners discover the show. 

 

Happy Planet Podcast was reported and hosted by Abigail Carroll. I am the Executive Producer. The talented Dylan Heuer [hoyer] is our producer and editor. Composer GEORG BRANDL EGOFF created our theme music.

 

Learn more about my work and get in touch by visiting happyplanetcapital.com.