Would you spend eternity in an underwater urn? Louise Skajem and Aura Murillo of Resting Reef

Today, we are hopping over the Atlantic to speak with Louise Skajem and Aura Murillo, two young, UK-based women designers who are innovating in a marine area I never imagined I would discuss on this show: funerary services. These young women are full of life and will challenge everything you have ever come to believe about funeral directors.

Their company, the aptly named Resting Reefs, proposes to use human ashes, mix them with oyster shell powder, which is very high in calcium carbonate and a wonderful ocean anti-acidification agent, and transform them into what they call underwater urns. These are beautiful sculptures used to create artificial living reefs installed along coastlines.

Rather than simply spreading ashes in the ocean, as many people do, creating a resting reef gives family and friends a sense of permanence, a reef to visit where marine life will grow and prosper.

In this podcast, you will hear a reference to aquamation. This is an alternative process to cremation that is preferred by Louise and Aura since it uses five times less energy than fire and reduces a funeral's emissions of greenhouse gases by about thirty-five percent.

While neither Louise nor Aura are originally from the UK, they say it's a great place to start a business right now, and their type of business in particular may be well positioned to benefit from being in the United Kingdom as 75 percent of the UK population opts for cremation. And after two years of keeping ashes at home, people usually look for something special to do with them. These women might just be on to something....

Just a reminder, you can listen to Happy Planet pretty much anywhere you listen to podcasts, or by following one of these links:  Apple , Spotify, Google, or our website.

SPONSORS & PARTNERS

Many thanks to Maine Technology Institute, Maine Venture Fund and Spark No.9 for their sponsorship. 

I’d also like to thank our promotional partners. Investable Oceans is a US-based angel platform specializing in ocean-related startups. 

Oceanovation is a fast-growing hub for entrepreneurs and investors in blue-tech innovation. 

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Transcript

Abigail: Welcome to the podcast today, where we celebrate innovation for a happy planet. I am your host, Abigail Carroll.

Today, we are hopping over the Atlantic to speak with Louise Skajem and Aura Murillo, two young UK based women designers who are innovating in a marine area I never imagined I would discuss on this show: funerary services. These young women are full of life and will challenge everything you have ever come to believe about funeral directors.

Their company, the aptly named Resting Reefs, proposes to use human ashes, mix them with oyster shell powder, which is very high in calcium carbonate and a wonderful ocean anti-acidification agent, and transform them into what they call underwater urns. These are beautiful reef sculptures used to create artificial living reefs installed along coastlines.

Rather than simply spreading ashes in the ocean, as many people do, creating a resting reef gives family and friends a sense of permanence, a reef to visit where marine life will grow and prosper.

In this podcast, you will hear a reference to aquamation. This is an alternative process to cremation that is preferred by Louise and Aura since it uses five times less energy than fire and reduces a Funeral's Emissions of Greenhouse Gases by about 35 percent

While neither Louise nor Aura are originally from the UK, they see it's a great place to start a business right now, and their type of business in particular may be well positioned to benefit from being in the United Kingdom as 75 percent of the UK population opts for cremation. And after two years of keeping ashes, people usually look for something special to do with them.

Louise and Aura are here to help, but let's hear it from them.

 So welcome to the podcast, Aura and Louise.

Louise: Thank you so much for inviting us and share our story. 

Aura: Thank you so much, we're very happy to be here.

Abigail: I was so excited to learn about your business. Louise and I share a cousin, a Norwegian cousin who lives in the UK and that's where you're doing business right now. You're in the UK?

Aura: Yes. 

Louise: We're in London.

Abigail: Lovely. Great place to be. So, tell me a little bit about Resting Reef. What are you doing?

Aura: so Resting Reef is a sustainable memorial and death care service that transforms people's ashes into beautiful reef structures. These reef structures are then placed in the ocean to regenerate marine life. And how we do it is very simple: we collect the ashes from people, then we create a unique formula that contains these ashes and also crushed oyster shells that are very rich in calcium carbonate.

And we mix it together with other biomaterials to create this formula that can then be 3D printed into these beautiful wreath memorials. And after that, we place it in one of our marine sites. Initially, we're starting in the UK. and then we monitor the progress of these reefs to make sure that they are serving their purpose and that they are regenerating marine life.

Abigail: Amazing. so we're going to have to deep dive into a lot of the specifics on that, butCan you put this in context? Because, I've seen some interest in changing the way we bury people and that we deal with people's death and departure and their bodies once they've passed. Why is this an important shift? Why are people looking at this?

Louise: Yes, so when it comes to the topic of death: for many, this is actually a taboo. So we don't really talk much about it. And so there's also this lack of awareness of actually how polluting a lot of existing practices are.for example, cremation, there is 400 kilo of CO2, released in the air. And then there's embalming fluids that goes into the groundwater. For example, in the states alone, there's a hundred million acres of forest deforested every year for the funeral industry in order to make caskets and new burial land. And also a lot of steel and cement that goes into creating land memorials. So they're all of these issues, but then on the other side, there's also in a lot of areas, a decline in religious beliefs. So often, burials and funerals have been very much connected to these religious practices, but as a lot of young people maybe don't connect with these practices anymore, there is this demand for doing other things that still feel meaningful for families and loved ones.

Abigail: Right. So in your context, the idea is to connect people to the earth.

Louise: Exactly. It's to, in a way, close The cycle where we, mentally and physically, are reunited in nature and can nourish marine life and also visit nature and be present and see how your loved ones are contributing to marine growth.

Abigail: So, let's back up a little bit. You mentioned the carbon footprint of cremation you're still going to have a carbon footprint using Resting Reefs because people go through that process, correct?

Louise: Yes. So there is this new way of cremating called water cremation 

Abigail: Okay. 

Louise: Or Aquamation, which uses alkalines and water to treat the body, and this is seven times less energy intensive, there's no polluting, outputs, et cetera. Both the pure bones and liquid can be used as fertilizers.and this is already happening in Canada and the States. It's now being legalized as well in the UK. So we hope this is, you know, the future, a much more sustainable alternative. And the great thing is that you preserve 100 percent of the calcium phosphate. So basically the phosphor, the nourishing element of our bones, is preserved from this process. If you'd use fire cremation, you lose 50 percent of it but there's still the 50 percent of the nourishing phosphorus that we can incorporate into our reef structures. In the UK, there's 75 percent of people do cremation. So we're looking into, okay, there's already 500,000 people every year looking through what can we do with this ashes, and we're coming with an alternative that, hopefully can, offset or have a positive impact after this negative impact has already happened regardless.

Abigail: Wow. 75 percent of the people in the UK opt for cremation. That's amazing. So this, first of all, this water cremation will actually have a big impact in the UK, just shifting the practice from fire to water. So your clients are going to be families or, you know, people who've had a living will, they've said that they want to be part of Resting Reef.

So they get cremated. You take those ashes and you have a whole system. You mix them with more Calcium or calcium carbonate from oysters - something I should know about.

Aura: Yes, so we are creating this formula that it's also part of what we are developing and part of what our startup is doing to understand how to create also a formula that is sustainable and that is able to create something for nature and at the same time incorporate the ashes in a way that they nourish, right? So it's not only something that is going to be symbolic or something where you only place an urn, let's say, but actually using the properties of the ashes and the other materials to create something good for nature and for marine life.

Abigail: It's the ultimate Upcycling. 

Louise: Yeah. 

Abigail: It's like upcycling your way to heaven. I love it. I love it So, this is a little gory, but like, your upcycling human remains. How many human remains do you need for your structure? What do your structures look like?

Louise: Yes, so the way we designed our structures is that it's going to be one memorial reef structure per person. So the average is three kilos per person, so we made sure our reef structures and our formulation works well with this amount, but of course there is a space for flexibility depending on the amount of ashes.

And then we place all of these reef structures next to each other to create a stable foundation for marine life to recolonize and thrive. And over time, the structure will bio-integrate because nature has taken over. and you might not recognize the structures, but you know they are there as a foundation.

Abigail: So it takes three and a half kilos or three kilos per person is what you get in ashes and you, you mix this… What does the structure visually look like?

Aura: So we have different designs, both Louise and I, we are designers. And we've kind of incorporated two approaches to be able to develop these designs. One is a nature center approach, so everything that we do, we don't want to have structures that look invasive. So we are using biomimicry principles, for example, to understand how is nature and how these reefs can be incorporated in the system.

Also, for example, with the technology of 3D printing, we are able to create texture. And that will also help species, marine species to attach. more effective. And then on the other side, we have a human centered approach. We need to understand that these are going to be memorial structures, right?

And that these structures are representing people. So we are also doing structures that are desirable, that are very beautiful. And that is something that families can feel proud of. Or let's say if someone is planning ahead and wants to go for Resting Reef, that they like the idea of becoming that beautiful object that is going to be in the ocean.

Abigail: It's amazing. So it's very common here for people to have their ashes spread on the ocean. So you're sort of just taking it one step further and actually creating a specific site. So it has the appeal of a graveyard, but it also has the appeal of feeling like you're sending somebody off to be part of Nature.

I just found this really compelling when I heard about it. Years ago when I was still an oyster farmer, a friend of mine's father passed away and we actually created a bit of a reef. We took a bag of oysters, maybe a hundred or 200 oysters. We put them out in a specific place and we buried his ashes with them.

So in a certain sense, we were trying to achieve what you have achieved. But I am quite sure that those oysters got buried and everything sort of just became part of the whole ecosystem. Whereas you, your promise is, more defined and more,allows for more legacy because you will have a site where things will continue to grow and develop and you won't lose the, you won't lose the ashes in the same way.

Louise: Yeah, the reason, or one of the reasons why we want to, for example, target oysters is when we became aware of the huge decline of native oyster reefs, around the world, but also specifically in the UK, like 95 percent of the native oyster reefs are gone. On a global scale is 85%. So it's quite severe, and a lot of people don't know this, there's much more awareness around corals, which are also severely threatened.

But we see Resting Reef, being global, but operating locally. So, our reef structures would have to accommodate for whatever local species are there, and the type of... biodiversity that needs to be accommodated for. So if it's, let's say, if we do Mexico or the Maldives or somewhere that's tropical, the reef structures would be designed for these, locations.

But we also, through our customer discovery, we saw there are a lot of people who, liked the idea of having their, or like being in the Maldives, for example,

Abigail: Well, that's what I was going to say. I want to rest in the Maldives. You know, the water's cold here.

Louise: Exactly. So it's, um, there is this option for, offering the service all over the world and creating them locally. So the main thing that would travel is the ashes and then being produced there. 

Aura: And I think also something very important about this is that we are offering people a place to visit. Right? Also, there's this opportunity of involving the local community because we see that these reefs are not only going to be beautiful legacies for loved ones, but also something that will benefit local communities with the overall biodiversity, let's say, with all the benefits of how these erosion, et cetera.

So for us, also this idea of having a specific marine site and being able to involve. The different stakeholders is super important and it's also an opportunity for people to approach to sustainability and also understand the importance of reefs in their local area and be proud about it and feel the sense of responsibility for the reef.

Abigail: So, that gets me to the next question. Technically, in a place like Maine, where I'm based, you're not supposed to go just throw ashes willy nilly in the ocean. There's supposed to be a certain distance from the shore. what are the rules that you're up against? And how are you dealing with that?

Aura: when it comes to, to, to permissions, for example, what we're dealing right now is, is being able to have a license to start our reefs. So here in the UK, you need to have the permission from the marine management organization to be able to deploy anything. it's one of the challenges that we're facing right now.

But again, it's something that will vary in each one of the locations. 

Abigail: So the issue is much more just creating an artificial reef than it is having ashes in it, because they're, you basically, you're looking at a chemical compound that is natural and that is, is likely to be, copacetic with the environment that you're working in.

Louise: Exactly.

Abigail: So, who's going to sign up for this? I mean, have people expressed interest? You're really early stage. I should, say that. You have not created a reef, correct?

Aura: We're in the process of doing our pilot reef and preparing our first commercial reef.

Abigail: Is it gonna be expensive? Actually, I forgot to ask that.

Louise: So... Like, most people don't know how expensive it is to die. 

Abigail: It's very it's crazy expensive!

Louise: The average cost of dying in the UK is 9,200 pounds. 

Abigail: Yeah. 

Louise: And so we're like, wow, people are already spending this amount of money towards something that is polluting and maybe outdated for a lot of people. What if this money can go towards restoration and positive impact?

but what's costly is restoration. So we're, we're seeing different tiers from like 4,000 to 8,000 pounds, depending on how personalized they would want the reef structure, for example.

Abigail: Amazing. All right. And who's signing up for this?

Aura: Yeah, so something that we've already developed is customer discovery. In this customer discovery, we were able to define some customer targets. And first of all, we have people that have ashes of a loved one, for example, that they have it, have the ashes stored and they are looking for something meaningful to do with them. And then from the other side, we have people that are planning ahead, and this could be, let's say, a younger generation. that they don't feel reflected with traditional practices or that they want to have a positive impact. and this is something that they can do from now, right? Starting to, kind of figure out what they want to do, sign up, and then kind of plan ahead or prepay, um, their, their final legacy.

But at the same time, we see that there's an opportunity for people that have pets, for example, being able to memorialize them. Or also people that are enthusiasts of marine environments, so surfers, divers, people that live around the coast. We see that there are many different clients, and that of course, once Resting Reef is a possibility, we will be able to explore specifically all of these different target groups.

But our market discovery has been very positive. We've also had, uh, we currently have 90 signups. You know, website that are interested whenever the service is available, either for themselves or for, um, their loved ones.

Abigail: I hadn't considered the possibility that you would be incorporating ashes of people who've already passed that are sitting on people's mantles. And if 75 percent of people in Britain are using cremation, you have a massive market opportunity here.

Louise: Yes. And also talking with funeral directors, it seemed like a lot of people maybe take up to one to two years, holding the ashes until they decide what should we do with it? Because. It's quite an intense process going through a funeral and a loss, and so when you've gone through the cremation you want to process that and not rush into the next decision on what should we do, and a lot of people have wills, and it's easy to follow their wishes, but others maybe didn't have a will, and you need to think what's right for them and what's right for us, and, how do we achieve something.

Abigail: So as you go around talking to people about your business, is it hard? I mean, is this challenging? I mean, I've, I hear pitches all the time, but you're pitching about something that most people really don't want to think about.

Aura: we definitely get a lot of different reactions. There's people that maybe as Louise was saying, because death is a taboo, they feel a little bit uncomfortable. But at the same time, we get reactions of people that are like, Oh, wow, shocked, right? I didn't see this coming. And then there is the sense of, okay, tell me more.

I want to learn more about this. And of course, we also get to talk with people that have experienced the loss or have been in the process of dealing with them, that maybe feel the connection and maybe a safe space to be able to talk about this. So it's definitely challenging, but at the same time, you encounter people that are very open and that are willing to help or that they feel connected with, emotionally connected with the idea.

And therefore they're helping us and supporting us and giving us a lot of insights to be able to make this an alternative in the market very soon.

Abigail: Well, you're two young, beautiful, vital women, and it's,very interesting that you are, I mean, it must be a little bit surprising to people to have two young women, you know, talk to them about their startup that's an end of life solution. So I think you've got a unique take on all of this and you, you know, you're not the normal funeral director. Are there any sort of ancillary things that you have to help people deal with or do you imagine that you'll help to help people deal with in this whole process?

Aura: Yes, so, Resting Reef is as much as providing sustainable alternative as it is to redefine how we experience, perceive, and also deal with death, right? So for us, what you were talking about, just the idea of being able to transform the image of the funeral director, or maybe just transform or help with the experience of dealing with grief, for example, is something very, very important for us.

At the same time that we are developing all the R&D of our formula and the reef structures, we are also developing our service. And the idea with this service is that we become a company that is there for the people, right? And that they can feel supported and guided with our process. So it's from the different updates that we give them of how the reef is going to be deployed, to maybe just giving them resources to be able to memorialize their loved one and feel a little bit more connected with themselves, with nature, creating or designing rituals around this, whenever they go to the site, how is going to be that experience? If there's a ceremony, how is that going to look like? 

Abigail: Interesting. 

Aura: So it's also looking into these aspects related to the human experience and the service that we can provide to improve how things have, Happened for many years. Exactly, exactly.

Abigail: We're going to take a quick break, but when we come back, I ask Aura and Luisa what led them to start Resting Reefs, and we find out why they've chosen crowdfunding over traditional financing in these early days.

Welcome back to Happy Planet. My guests today are Louise Skajem and Aura Murillo, two young, vital women who are innovating in end of life solutions. Keep listening to hear how they became interested in this line of work.

Aura: Yes, I can start. I have a personal story of loss. It was actually before my master's degree that I, I lost a very close loved one. And I had to go through the experience of dealing with a funeral and also feeling sometimes very uncomfortable when talking about this topic or not feeling supported or feeling that people don't have the language or the experience of talking about death.

 That made me interested in researching the topic of death. And specifically looking into how we deal with that and the services that are out there. Also understanding and collecting testimonials from people that have experienced the loss of someone. And also talking with experts and understanding why do people, let's say, avoid talking about the topic of death, and why, what is the grief process, and what are the different emotions that we go through.

So that was something that I started researching and in my master's I also started developing different experiences and research, conducting research related to, to death. And it was there where I met Louise that was specifically looking into topics of sustainability and biomaterials and it was when, when we came together, but maybe Louise you can talk about your background as well.

Louise: I've also experienced loss, well, of grandparents, which is of course a much more natural timeline of when you experience loss, so I would say that was more a traditional way of doing it, 

Abigail: But no less impactful.

Louise: Yeah, and for me within Resting Reef, it was very much also this really strong interest in sustainability and nature and looking how can I spend my time and my my energy into designing something that hopefully has impact long term, not only for us today, but also future generations and together with Aura we pitched ideas of how can we tackle climate change and she brought in very much this angle of death anddoing an underwater urn that oysters could grow on and people could care for them and at that stage, I also had the knowledge that UK is running out of burial land. so I was Oh, actually, there's something really novel here. There's, we're dealing with two problems, not only...

Abigail: Yep.

Louise: not only oysters, but also there's a big issue in the burial industry that we might tackle now.

Aura: And I'll, I just want to say that also, Louise was has always been very hands on and also experimenting with biomaterials and also having all of these creative solutions for, difficult problems. So it was suddenly her just saying, "okay, I'm going to experiment with oysters. I'm going to crush them. Let's see what we can do with this material. What is the consistency that we can achieve?" And then it was kind of both motivations and passions that came together. And it's what keep us going and also the roles that we have currently in Resting Reef is kind of developing this nature-centered approach, but at the same time the human-centered aspect and the service.

Abigail:  That's great. And ultimately you're gonna have a big impact on the pH levels too, wherever you make these reefs, because oysters keep that pH level, that keep acidity at bay. so you're in the UK where. I've had a little experience. Thanks to Harry Wright and Bright Tide, his accelerator. It seems like there's a really good startup climate in the UK right now. and neither of you is native to the United Kingdom, but somehow you're there and starting your business there. Can you speak to that?

Louise: So we met at our master's, the Royal College of Art and Imperial College, London. So it was a dual master's. So we had, when we came up with this idea, we took part in this pre accelerator called We Innovate at the Imperial Enterprise Lab. And that was very much helping us to understand the business proposal of what we're doing.

As designers, you're very much looking into tackling problems. But you're not always asked to think, "would people pay for what you're designing? Or is there a market for what you're designing? And a demand?" so that really helped the mindset of thinking, how can we create a sustainable business model that helps, bring revenue to restoration?

Because it's a huge, like... Through our research, talking with restoration project managers, they say, "yeah, we spend half of our time applying for public funding, donations, grants, etc. And then the other half we can kind of execute the project and do restoration, and it's a really unsustainable revenue stream."

And so for us, we hope that Resting Reef, there is this constant flow and engagement in the restoration, not only from the project manager and teams perspective, but also the local community and the families that have their loved ones in it and wanting it to thrive basically. 

Aura: Yeah, we've also- here in the UK, there is, um, an amazing ecosystem and also grant opportunities from the government that are supporting small startups.

So, uh, so far we've been able to fund our business. through this. And it's basically different opportunities related to design, to technology, biomaterials that you can apply for, and the government will fund that project. So we've been able to do that. At the same time, we do accelerator programs.

We're currently in The Greenhouse, Undaunted Greenhouse, and that is also a 12 month program that is giving us mentorship and also is giving us a little bit more reinforcement on this part of customer discovery and also a bit of funding. So, we've been very lucky, I must say, we also have a network of mentors that are just giving their time to help us, uh, because they believe in what we do. Um, so we, think that the UK or at least London, is the place to be, uh, whenever you're having a startup and that there's support to make your startup grow.

Abigail: That's amazing. It's great to hear. And it's what I've seen on the ground. I think I mean, it's just it's you've kind of dared go where other people haven't it's really fascinating .

Louise: We must say when we started our first accelerators, it felt very much, there was one route to doing a startup the investor route. And getting pitch ready from day one, that was like your main focus, get your pitch, uh, deck there. And we kind of felt maybe with certain types of funding, like VCs and stuff, there would be a lot of pressures on delivering numbers instead of considering all the sustainability elements, that we really value as a business. And we didn't want to have to feel like we need to cut corners at an early stage. So we, feel like we're establishing very much the foundation of who we are, what we want to stand for, where we want to go, and then hopefully get investors on board and believe in what we want to build. 

Abigail: So you're super early stage still, but you are fundraising. So can you tell me about the fundraising campaign?

Louise: Yes, we are currently running a crowdfunding campaign in order to fund our pilot reef. So we've done a bit of initial testing with our formula, both in the London aquarium with some samples, but also in Norway. But these are just small samples. So what we now want to test is our reef designs and see how they perform in marine environments.

And marine environment can be quite harsh. So it's very important to understand, uh, these conditions. And we also through the crowdfunding, hopefully we can start that whole process talking with, the licensing, organizations here in the UK. It's a process that takes time and can be costly so we just want to make sure we started it and that's not being, um, a big problem down the line when we've done the testing.

Abigail: So I'm interested in this crowdfunding and why you're crowdfunding instead of doing a more, traditional angel round, like with angel investors. Is there a reason why you decide to crowdfund?

Aura: We've had a lot of traction and also there's a lot of people that want to be involved somehow in Resting Reef. And we decided right now with the pilot reef because it's something related to restoration and it's something that people want to be part of, being able to do an impact for the planet, that it was the perfect opportunity.

Uh, we know that right now we are not in a stage where we can offer our services. But we also, for this crowdfunding campaign, we were very creative with the perks because it's a reward based campaign, so people can give an amount of money and they will get something in return, and we have many different interesting perks from an immersive soundtrack that we did in collaboration with a songwriter and producer from the UK named Think, to let's say people being able to sponsor a social impact workshop where the Resting Reef team will go to, let's say an elementary school and talk about sustainability with kids. So it's everything related to the impact side of Resting Reef and being able to involve everyone that has been actively asking to do so to become part of Resting Reef. 

Louise: And we have also talked with investors at earlier stages. But the feedback we've kind of received from them is that you're still very early. There's a lot of unknown. We would love to get in touch with you after you've done a pilot or after you have secured a license or understand, understand more of that process. So that's what we're hoping to now raise the money so that we can get through that hurdle and be much more investor ready and interesting.

Abigail: That's great. So I will make sure that the campaign is in the show notes just for listeners to, to understand. and how much are you looking for?

Aura: 25,000. Pounds. Yeah, Pounds…

Abigail: Yeah.

Aura: ...is the first goal. Um, and we, we're thinking about all the different goals that we have. Um, but that's of course if we are able to get overfunded. Right now our priority will be to, to hit, uh, the first goal. So, if anyone is interested in supporting ocean related initiatives, something that is doing an impact for the planet and also women led startups, please check the description box that Abigail will leave to go to our crowdfunding campaign.

Abigail: And so you're going to use this money to, push forward on the pilot reef. And, how many, how many people on your team? Cause you've mentioned people, you've mentioned team members before. Hmm.

Louise: Yeah, so it's Aura and I that are full time co founders. And then we have our head of science, Morven. She's worked with us full time during some of the grounds we've had with Innovate UK, but currently she's working 50 percent and then we also have, Some other part time workers that are helping us on designing our reef structures.

Aura: So, Morven is a wildlife conservationist. She's a scientist and is making sure that everything that we do is serving the purpose of nature. And then, the other... person that is helping us is Wei Zhang; he is an industrial designer but also he's an expert in 3D printing technology and ceramics and material so he's helping us in the development of the reef structures.

Abigail: Very interesting. You're two young women, you're right out of grad school. why did you choose this route of being an entrepreneur when you could have, you know, you could be in salary jobs and, you know, that are more stable that, you know, where, where life is a little easier. 

Louise: Yeah, I think like through all our conversations with people at an early stage, there was so much positive response and a lot of people were like, "wow, like it's exactly what I would want in the future." So we, we felt very motivated that let's, see what this might lead to. And the summer after we graduated or during that summer, we applied for the Innovate UK grant and we received it.

So that meant we had secured, salary basically also money. So we could do our customer discovery and early prototyping. And that was... we had already had the conversation. How many percentage would we work on Resting Reef if we didn't have the funding? Maybe we'd do 50 percent and see how far we could get with a part time job. But we, yeah, I think both of us really enjoyed what we're working on and it feels really meaningful for us doing it. 

Aura: And it was also a decision that took a lot of thinking, of course, and understanding. Okay, this is the project that we're committing our time and our efforts, and maybe there will be a time where we will have to, um, give up on salaries, right? And maybe just, like, fund it, or look for small projects that we can work on the side to be able to move forward with Resting Reef. But I guess it's what Louise's saying, all the motivation, and then... Being able to have all of these opportunities from the government, the different accelerators, and just people that believe in us that have contributed to where we are.

Abigail: Well, it seems like you're being pulled a little bit. You put the idea out there and all these people are, are,and opportunities are bringing you forward. And I think that's, that's a really good sign.

Louise: It's, It's, how it feels in some way, but also right now, as long as we can pay our rent and have food on the table, we, love every day, and we learn something new every day, and it's constantly new challenges. and that's, That's really motivating.

Abigail: That's great. So, are you optimistic about the future? I mean, you're, you're, you're a climate activist. Are you optimistic that we're going to stay ahead of the climate pressures?

Louise: I guess we have to. Like, I don't know what, what the other alternative is, um, if, if we're not optimistic for a future for ourselves, but also maybe our children or grandchildren. we're at least trying our best working on that from our side here. 

Aura: And I think it's also this aspect of being a little bit hopeful that gives you the energy to work for it, right? And maybe, to keep us motivated on doing this. It's something that of course, if we see out there is, it's like the tipping point now, right? And it's important to act now and we are running out of time. So that of course is stressful sometimes. But just this idea of like every day working towards a goal of providing a different alternative that will do good for the planet. It's something that requires a little bit of hope and being able to say, "okay, there's this possibility we're going for it and we're putting full effort to make it happen."

Louise: So, yeah, I, I actually remembered an example at a very early stage. We very much talked about, we want to use water cremation or aquamation as the source of ashes and whenever we pitched it here in the UK, we got the questions "So is this legal in the UK?" And we were like "uh not yet Or is like it's happening in the States and Canada and it's increasing interest in it And we were very much, "this is the future", and the response were like, "yeah, but you can't build your business on something that's not legal yet, or waiting for regulations to get there." That's why we also started thinking, "what can we do with the ashes already existing?" But yeah, we do have this idea of the future hopefully will be a better place.

Abigail: Well, I think without that optimism, you can't build a company from scratch because you have so many hurdles. You have to have that sort of sense of faith and hope for your product, for your team and for yourselves. So it's beautiful. before we go, do you have any advice for young entrepreneurs today?

Aura: Yeah, for me, it's been key, this idea, um, someone defined it as building your own luck and of course it's something about being optimistic and perseverant with the different opportunities that you kind of go for and apply for. And of course, there's been a lot of rejections, uh, on this side. We've applied for many, many different things and we've received "no's".

And it could be that sometimes in those days you're like, this is not going to work. It's over. But then kind of comparing it with like all of those opportunities that we've had because we kept trying. It's kind of this idea that when you see, um, like retrospective, you're able to understand that it was worth it to keep going and to maybe just like go for the next one. Okay. It was a no, but that's something that happens. Like it's the typical path with entrepreneurship right?, but it's like going for the next one and hoping that the opportunity will, come at some point and that there will be people that are believing in your idea. And it's just a matter of knocking doors and keep trying and just go going for the next, um, opportunity. 

Louise: I would say is also really important to make the space for yourself and also within the company. So Aura and I very much have an open conversation that it's okay, you take, uh, your morning to go to the gym or you want to go early from work because you have a cinema or theater or something, or maybe you say, "I'm exhausted. I really need this day fully off" and having an open dialogue about it and not always kind of feel like, a competition or a constant race of, being, uh, productive to all times because you, you will burn out. So if you want to be there in the long run, you need to listen to yourself as well.

Abigail: Louise, you're the first person to say that on this podcast, and I it is such important and sound advice, because there is the bravado of being in a startup, where it's like, "Oh, we're just grinding, we're grinding, and we're slaying all these dragons."And, a lot of it is just bravado. I mean, people are really suffering, their health suffers,And when you're not well, your productivity suffers. So I think that is really, really great advice that, I'm happy someone's finally said it.

Louise: I'm glad.

Abigail: So thank you. So you don't need a Resting Reef sooner than want one: You gotta care of yourself!

Aura: Yeah. Exactly.

Abigail: Well, you've blown my mind. I think you have a massive market opportunity in front of you and I can't see two better people to take this on and run with it and have just wonderful success. So thank you so much for coming today.

Louise: Thank you so much. And yeah, we also just want to reach out to any of the listeners if there's any collaboration or an opportunity for a potential site, etc. Then, yeah, please reach out, we're very open to see 

Aura: Our website is www.restingreef.co.uk - C O DOT U K.

Abigail: We'll get that in the show notes too. 

Louise: Perfect.

Aura: Thank you so much. 

Abigail: Thank you, Louise and Aura. This has been a surprising and fascinating interview. I imagine this actually really could appeal to a lot of people. You can learn more about Resting Reef on their website by visiting restingreef.co.uk, and if you'd like to help them fundraise to build out their first pilot reef, you can contribute to their crowdfunding campaign on Indiegogo.

You will find the link in the show notes.

 Thank you once again for listening. Please follow Happy Planet wherever you tune in and leave us a rating and review. It really does help new listeners discover the show. Happy Planet was reported and hosted by me, Abigail Carroll. I am also the executive producer. The talented Matt Patterson is our producer and editor.

Composer George Brandl Egloff created our theme music. Learn more about my work and get in touch by visiting happyplanetpodcast.com.