Spiny Lobster Aquaculture for Pharma: Christophe Maier

This week’s guest, Christophe Maier, Founder and CEO of Lagosta. Christophe was raised in Switzerland, on lake Geneva, but once he discovered the Mediterranean he couldn’t get enough of salty waterbodies! 

Fast forward to adulthood and Christophe raises spiny lobsters, not for the European luxury food market as he originally expected, but for the pharma market which is turning out to be a very lucrative pivot. And he doesn’t even harm the lobsters. Instead, he up-cycles spiny lobster by-catch, grows them out in his onshore system and uses their “molts” or shedded shells to produce high-quality Chitosan.

Some of the subjects we will touch upon are:

• How Christophe came to Pivot
• How Climate change is affecting spiny lobsters and the Med in general
• How Christophe raises the spiny lobsters
• The particularities of the spiny lobster
• Traceability and spiny Lobster “fingerprints”
• The benefits of Chitosan 
• Christophe’s growth plans and fundraise
• Christophe’s advice to entrepreneurs

Christophe Maier
Lagosta

Transcript

INTRO:

HOST VO: Welcome to Happy Planet where we speak with entrepreneurs, investors, and thought leaders driving the impact economy. I am your host Abigail Carroll. 

Many of us want to eat our cake and have it too; today’s entrepreneur is selling spiny lobster parts and managing to keep the lobster too! 

Today's story is a story of PIVOTING. Something many entrepreneurs find they have to do in the early stages of their businesses.

Christophe Maier is the founder and CEO of Lagosta, a burgeoning pan-European company that is in the business of spiny lobster aquaculture. Christophe thought he was going to grow his lobsters for the premium seafood market but pivoted when he discovered he could upcycle a lobster byproduct and sell it at a huge premium to pharmaceutical companies. And good news to the lobsters - they get released into the Mediterranean. Let’s hear it from Chistophe.

Abigail (01:15):

Well, um, that's kind of a depressing way to start the, um, interview, but I, I wanna get back to that because I wanna know how that's affecting, you know, your operation. Of course. Course. But, um, but first, let's, let's start a little bit at the beginning. Are you in Monaco now, or are you in Switzerland?

Christophe (01:34):

I'm in Switzerland. Right.

Abigail (01:35):

In Switzerland. Yeah. Right. Um, but your business, Lagosta is based in Monaco, and you are raising spiny lobsters.

Christophe (01:45):

Spiny lobsters. Not to be confused with the traditional, uh, lobster that you have in Maine <laugh>.

Abigail (01:50):

Right, right. Um, and it's not just any spiny lobster, it's the royal sp spiny lobster.

Christophe (01:59):

The Royal spiny lobster. Exactly. Um, and I'm in Switzerland because the head mo the, the mother company is headquartered in Switzerland. That's for the operational and administrative aspects for the time being. Okay. And we have the R&D and production small scale facility, production site in Monaco. That's, uh, that's exactly what,

Abigail (13:31):

That's amazing. So that gets us to, um, why you're growing these spiny lobsters, uh, because you're, you you used to grow them for food, if I'm not mistaken. And now you're growing them just for the molted shell. 

Christophe (13:48):

That's correct. Um, indeed, the, the, the, the initial plan was to raise these animals, uh, for the seafood market because there is such a high demand, increasing demand worldwide to, to access such prestigious seafood products. And the stocks in nature are, are declining, uh, I mean sharp, really dramatically, sharply. And we wanted to do something about it and to have some belief on fisheries and stocks and so on. And the goal was initially to raise these animals for the seafood market. And since we, they, they, they grow so fast in our system is that each individual, uh, loses its carapace naturally in our system once every three months. So

Abigail (14:33):

That's amazing,

Christophe (14:34):

The, the, the weigh, uh, of one of these mold is on average approximately 100 grams. So as you may imagine 100 grams time 10, you already have one kilo plus of a byproduct because this is a byproduct, this is, is waste. Right, right. And, um, we, we can you imagine if you start having hundreds of thousands of these individuals, which each individual molting wants every three months, you have a huge amount of, of these byproducts. And interestingly, since my, um, my colleagues and myself have also a lot of experience and expertise in the field of biotechnology, we said, well we need to do something about these byproducts and try to valorize them. And because we have pretty large network, uh, worldwide, um, with, um, institutions, universities, and different laboratories, we worked with five different laboratories worldwide. And we rapidly have seen that. Um, one of this compound that is present in this, uh, naturally generated molds is called Chitin.

Christophe (15:42):

And Chitin, uh, when you transform it in a, in the laboratory, it gives birth to a new compound called chitosan. And chitisan today is, is um, is a very well known compound used in numerous applications, um mm-hmm. <affirmative> agriculture in, uh, in the    , primarily in the, in the field of cosmetics. But what is really interesting is that for the last I would say 15 years, there is a huge army of scientists all around the world that have shown the benefits of using chitosan in numerous therapeutics, in numerous biomedical applications. It ranges from skin replacement, uh, in the field of oncology in cancer, uh, as an example. It can be used as a drug carrier. Uh, it also has shown to have a huge impact and effect against, uh, covid 19, uh, virus. I mean, the, the list is, is very exhaustive.

Christophe (16:42):

And it has been highly, highly, uh, mentioned in the, and reported in the scientific literature. And because of the pa particularity of our chitosan that we have, or this kean that we have produced based on our naturally generated molds from our spiny lobsters, we have created as of today a unique biomedical chitosan that we want to devote for the biomedical industry, meaning biotechnology, pharma companies, institution, uh, research institutions or universities, uh, worldwide. It took us, we have done this since 2016. Uh, so it's not something that we have elaborated just in two months. It took us years. It involved five different laboratories worldwide. But today our product is ready. And, uh, it is currently being tested by external partners for further validation, knowing that, uh, we have worldwide experts that already have confirmed about the quality, the uniqueness of our product, compared to a, um, commercialized product today on the market. So our goal is now to, to reach the market, uh, this year. And obviously we will need to increase our capacity because as of today, we only have a prototype facility that is located in, uh, Monaco. And it won't be sufficient to fulfill the worldwide demand for such type of product. And therefore we are currently setting up a large production site in, uh, in Portugal.

Abigail (18:22):

Very cool. Um, so what are the properties, I mean, cuz you can get chitin out of, you know, any crab shell, you know, American lobster shells, you can get them, you can get them from lots of sources and shrimp. Why, why is yours so special? Why is this gonna

Christophe (18:42):

Exactly

Abigail (18:43):

Be different?

Christophe (18:43):

It's a very good question. The thing is, we are, as of today, the only ones working with the spiny lobsters. Okay. Everything is being derived, as you said, uh, today in terms of chitosan from shrimps or, or crabs, uh, or fungi as well. Uh, but nobody else is working with spiny lobsters. So originally already the species you are working with plays a role in the, in the end product because it's,

Abigail (19:08):

And it's not just any spidey lobster. Sorry to interrupt, it's the royal spiny lobster. Correct.

Christophe (19:13):

It's the royal spiny lobsters from the meran <laugh>, which is a cold water species, uh, compared to the other, uh, spiny lobsters species all around the world that for the majority are tropical species, but the meran species is a cold water species. Um, so the thing is, we, the, the species plays a role then it's the way you raise your animal. Okay? He typically, the shrimp industry, it's outside facilities. Okay. And they are exposed to different environmental conditions. In our case, we are working in a closed system in which we can control all parameters in terms of water quality, in terms of whatever you want to. That's another thing that plays an important role because we are really working on, on really pure water, let's put it this way, uh, to have something exceptional. Uh, at the end, then, um, what happens is that today, everything, the whole industry, the Chitosan and industry relies on extracted, um, caropace on which you have killed the animal.

Christophe (20:19):

You have either mechanically or manually extracted the caropace from the body. On our end, we are not affecting the animals. We just let the animals releasing naturally. They are molt, they are carapce, they are shell, whatever. And we just collect them every morning in our system that we put them on, on the freezer, we are not affecting, you know, uh, touching at all the, the, the animals. So we, the, the third point is that we are not working with car opace for which we have killed the animals. We are working with naturally generated molds, which is already a big differentiator. Then plays an important role as well. It is the bio process because if you go in a scientific literature, you may find some bioprocesses that are currently being used with some shrimps or whatsoever. But again, what you may apply for the lobster or for the shrimp to the spinal lobsters may not work actually.

Christophe (21:22):

So we have designed a specific customized bioprocess for our spiny lobster chitosan. So the bio process plays an important role. Then if you target the biomedical, uh, field, what is really important is traceability. And today, typically, uh, what you find on the market, uh, there is not much of, uh, traceability here in our system because, uh, we are working in a closed environment. We are working on spinal lobsters. It brings us to another advantage that we have is that spiny lobsters are a little bit like humans in a sense that they also have fingerprints. So we have to, that just blow my mind on, on our fingers. Uh, but the spinal lobsters have, um, a different pattern on their body. Okay? They have little dots. They have, um, a lot of different colors and, and so on. So I'm, I may sure you actually choose spinal lobsters.

Christophe (22:27):

I mean, know, tell me, Hey Christopher, what are you telling me? I mean, these are exactly the same, but actually if you take, uh, specific, uh, you look at the specific details on the body, you will see that each individual is different from the, from the other one. And even though when they lose the carapase every three months in our system, the new carapace, uh, has exactly the same pattern. It's exactly the same. And they keep this for all during all these years for which they will live, uh, in our system or in nature. So each individual is different. So what happens is that in our system, every time there is a mold, you just need to take the mold, put it under the camera, our AI system that we have developed specifically for this activity, and it will relate you to which individual it is.

Christophe (23:18):

And you can therefore track the whole growth of these individuals. And at the end, when you produce this unique biomedical chitosan, and you can, in the event of any potential issue, you may revert back to each individual or to which where it's being derived from. So this is another advantage. So the, the species plays a role, the way you grow your individuals, then the type of byproduct, either a carapace or naturally generated mold, the type of bio process that you may have. And also, again, a bit, call it this way, cherry on the cake is the traceability system that, you know,

Abigail (23:59):

Amazing

Christophe (24:00):

To, to complete all these things.

Abigail (24:02):

There's a lot of, a lot of different scientific technologies that are being pulled together to produce this, this product. Exactly. Exactly. Um, if I remember correctly, and just <inaudible>, wasn't there something unique about your product and that you could ingest it, whereas the other ones were not ingestible? No. Okay.

Christophe (24:29):

No, it, it's, no, it's not. Um, for the time being, it's not intended to, uh, to be ingested. Okay.

Abigail (24:37):

Okay. All right.

Christophe (24:37):

It might be used as a therapeutics, it may be used in, in the field of cancer, it would be injectable.

Abigail (24:44):

Yes. Yeah.

Christophe (24:45):

Um, okay. But, uh, no, for the time being, it's not, uh, it might or of course it might. Okay. What, what is, uh, the biggest concern is that, uh, it's aller gies. Okay. Many people are allergic actually to,

Abigail (24:57):

To shellfish.

Christophe (24:58):

Shellfish and and so on. Yeah. And, but we know from what, it comes from, it comes from the, the typically chitosan has shown also sometimes to show some allergical aspects, uh, or side effects. And that comes from the level of proteins actually in the, in the end product. Here again, because we are working on naturally generated molds, there is no flesh associated, remember? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, if you make, if you extract from the body, uh, you have flesh associated with it. So what you need to do, you need to cook the, the shelf first to degrade the proteins or the flesh that is associated to it. We don't have all these things. So the level of proteins that we have in our biomedical Chitosan is zero. So we limit, we limit dramatically all these potential allergy, um, side effects.

Abigail (25:54):

That's amazing.

Christophe (02:29):

It's pretty nice, I have to admit. And we are now setting up this large projection site, uh, in, uh, in Portugal that these, these are

Abigail (02:38):

Next trends.

Christophe (02:40):

These are the next brands for the, yeah. With the current fundraising.

Abigail (02:43):

Very cool. So it sounds like you're a little ahead of where we, uh, you were when we last spoke to you, which is awesome. So tell, let's talk a little bit about the aquaculture. You're raising these, um, uh, you're raising these spiny lobsters and, uh, uh, you know, I, we're gonna get into the bio-med aspect of this later, but, so what's this like, where are they living? They're in Monaco. They're not at the casino

Christophe (03:10):

<laugh>. They live in Monico in a pretty nice hotel. We, we, we qualify it as a five star hotel for these uh, for these individuals. The, and the reason why you call it this way, because spiny lobsters, uh, they need to have, uh, when you try to raise them indoor, or if you prefer in captivity, they need to have, um, an operational plant that is designed for their wellbeing. If it, this is not the case, actually, what will the spinal lobster do is almost nothing. Why? Because if spiny lobsters do not have the right temperature, the right quality of water, the right type of food, the harness of the food, the, the, uh, the, the, the setting in the, in the tanks, the right number of individuals, uh, the current, uh, as well plays a role in the tank, the light and many other aspects. If you miss to provide them one of these criteria, the spinal lobsters will do nothing.

Christophe (04:15):

It's, it would be quite a similar to when you go to nice restaurants. Uh, they, most of the time seafood restaurants have at, at, at the entrance, uh, a tan  k with, uh, either lobster, the traditional lobster or, or spiny lobsters. But they're not moving. They, they here, they're nice. Right. Great. Uh, but they're not moving. Why? Because nothing is right, actually, in terms of conditions for, so what we have done is that, uh, over the last more than 25 years, we, we know very well these individuals because they are very complex animals and we, we know them so well that we have designed this five star hotel. And as a result of that, it's that it's, it's it's party 24 hours a day and

Abigail (05:01):

Nice <laugh> fitting of Monico <laugh>.

Christophe (05:06):

So it's party 24 hours, uh, a day. Uh, and and they eat a lot, therefore they eat a lot. Yeah. And it meat and it translates in significant growth for the individuals compared in the wild. And actually in our setting, uh, our spiny lobsters grow up to six times faster than in the world. Wow. So that shows how great today they, they feel in our, on our, in our system, <laugh>. 

Abigail (05:34):

That seems like a seriously huge number. Um, what, uh, what do you think that's due to? Is that due to just the constant availability of food or is that due to like, circulating water? Like, and you know, what do you think? Or just the,

Christophe (05:52):

It's a whole, if, if you could buy them just good food, uh, sufficient food, it wouldn't be sufficient. You really need to have this conglomerate of all wellbeing, we could call it this way, wellbeing criteria, uh, so that they're doing so great and they can do well and party well eat a lot, and therefore you have such a massive, uh, growth in, in our system. And I have to say also, it's not only, okay, we, we just put a lot of food like this. It's a type of feeds that have been developed also specifically for, uh, spinal lobsters. It's not just, you know, you take some food and you just pour some fish or some shrimps or some whatsoever. These are really pelles that have been designed not only for the, from the format, but also for the, the harness and the content. It's a huge amount of, um, uh, ingredients that are in these, uh, pellets designed for these spin lobsters. And one, a hundred percent of the food that we're using is organics. And we are also not using any chemicals, no antibiotics at all. [Wow.] And the survival rate that we have in our system is more than 90%. So it's, it's really, it's really working very well.

Abigail (07:13):

Um, what, uh, so when you do lose lobsters, is it, is there any cannibalism in the lobsters? Because I know in Maine, the lobsters, if you leave a bunch of lobsters in the tank too long, they start to eat each other. Now, maybe that's cuz they're not getting fed enough food. But does that happen in your tanks?

Christophe (07:33):

No, it, it, it doesn't. Well, for, for, for, the good reason for that is that, um, spiny lobsters are totally different than the traditional lobster that you, you may find in Maine. In Canada, the traditional lobster, um, what characterizes the traditional lobster are the claws. Okay. Uh, spiny lobsters don't have claws. They have spines on the caropies, hence we're calling them the spiny lobsters. Um, you, the, the lobster, if you try to raise them in, uh, indoor, in captivity, um, indeed you need to separate them. And because it's a canab cannibalistic species, they are can, yeah. So they eat each other. That's the reason why you also see when you're trying to buy live, uh, lobster, they put them in tanks and they have the rubber bands. Um, yeah. With the, with

Abigail (08:27):

The, on their claw. It's not just to not pitch, uh, pinch the, the, um, fingers of the people selling them.

Christophe (08:33):

They eat each other. But spiny lobsters, it's different. Um, they are, they are, they like to live in, in community. Uh, actually if you try to separate them and you put them, you know, in the box, one individual in the box, they're getting really stressed. They like to live in the community. In community. And they have also kind of a hierarchy when living in the community. They talk each others, they communicate each others, they're doing sounds. Um, studies have shown that they may produce up to seven different type of sounds as a communication aspect. Wow. Um, again, it's a very complex animal that has not very, been very well studied, um, and reporting in the scientific literature, because it's pretty difficult to, um, to study these animals in the habitat. Um, in our system it's different. Uh, we can see them, we can see how they behave. But again, because they are very highly complex, uh, and sensitive animals, it takes time to really understand how they operate, how they live, how they, they socialize, and what is really needed in order for them to have, uh, an area for, for their wellbeing.

Abigail (09:47):

So I really am interested in this, um, this sort of aspect of they're getting lonely. So what, on our oyster farm, we found that if we stocked our bags where we grew the oysters too thinly, they didn't grow as well. There was like, there was this perfect happy number in the bags. And, and I don't know if it, we called it the colony effect. You know, you needed a certain number of oysters either on the bottom to, to, to be able to survive and filter through the silt or even in the bags. And I think there was a sense of competition coming in. Right. There's a, there's resources like flowing through the bags. And if you had a little competition, it actually made it better. They filtered more. If there was enough, maybe they were a little lazy, you know, it wasn't, uh, and they didn't grow as fast. Right. So do you, so is that the kind of thing you see in your tanks?

Christophe (10:39):

You need to have the right number of individuals in the tank as well. If you have not enough, uh, it creates stress. Again, the volume is too large for just a, a few individuals. Uh, if, if you have too many, it gets to be a little bit complex as well. Uh, and we can see, let's see, sometimes, uh, the individuals start fighting indeed. And if you don't have any sufficient food, uh, the individuals will get more and more aggressive. So it's really important to have, as you said, a right balance of individuals, uh, um, based on, you know, the area or the volume that you have.

Abigail (11:17):

And so these tanks are big enough so these guys can move around.

Christophe (11:20):

Exactly. They can move and they can use the whole spectrum of the tanks. It's not only spiny lobsters on the floor. They use the full volume of the whole area in the tank.

Abigail (11:32):

And is it just spinny lobsters in the tank, or is there other animals for them to associate with?

Christophe (11:39):

No, it's only animals. However, we are working on new techniques, actually trying to combine a different set of species together. So such as invertebrates, other invertebrates, uh, that we could potentially use as well in the culture of spin lobsters. And um, yeah, we currently working on that.

Abigail (12:01):

That's cool. Do, do, do lobsters play?

Christophe (12:06):

I, I, I don't know if they play <laugh>. What I can see. I can only translate, you know, the happiness, uh, based on the growth that we see in our system.

Abigail (12:16):

Right. <laugh>.

Christophe (12:17):

But, uh, but, uh, what I can tell you, they help each other. Uh, we have videos showing, and especially, and as you may know, because you see this in all crustaceans, including the shrimps, the, the lobster, and of course our spiny lobsters is that when they grow, these animals need to lose their carabase. This is the natural process called the malting process. Yeah. And this is something that takes ours, um, to, to complete. It's a, it's, it's pretty intense, um, in terms of amount of energy that they use. A lot of chemicals, hormones are deployed during this, uh, this process. It, it's pretty, um, it's a pretty important one for these individuals, but what we can see is that it's not, you know, something at the end just getting out of the, the carabace and the, that's it, it takes hours. And what we see is that during the process we see other individuals coming and helping them to extract from their shell

Abigail (13:18):

Very interesting.

Christophe (13:20):

And, uh, uh, this, we have been in a position to see this many times and we have a lot of, uh, movies on that, uh, as well. It's, it's really impressive to see how they can help each other.

Abigail (25:54):

That's amazing. So you are not breeding, uh, spiny lobsters in your facility? You are, you are getting, yo u're getting them their bycatch from other fisher people, if I understand correctly.

Christophe (26:07):

No, thats correct. That's for for the time being, because we are currently, uh, finalizing the larva development process, which

Abigail (26:13):

oh wow

Christophe (26:13):

is not an easy one because it, it, it includes large number of different steps. It's a little bit of Star Trek movie. Yeah. I mean, you have, you have to see here a little, little spiders that, uh, totally transform over time in different cycles and, and so on. Obviously it takes time. We, as of today, control more than 70% of this whole process, and we intend to complete it within the next two years. For the time being. That's amazing. We are relying on, uh, the, the stocks from that are being taken from the wild, from, so we buy directly from the, the, the quotas from fisheries. We are not adding any additional pressure. We just buy directly from the quotas, from, from the fisheries. But what is really interesting with the whole model is that today with technology, you know, where are these individuals are being collected in the wild, okay?

Christophe (27:04):

It's not like a net. These are <inaudible>. It's um, it's, uh, we, we know exactly from GPS location where these individuals are coming from. And then remember, because we, they have this fingerprint and we have developed this artificial intelligence traceability system, is that each individual before entering our five star hotel, uh, he's been artificially this way, this way, tagged with a, with a name. And then each individual, which is market size, okay, uh, will spend two years of vacation in our system. And each individual will lose approximately eight times its carapace during this two year period. And for obviously we know, thanks to our traceability system, we can, we can track all the, you know, the growth of these individuals. And after two years, can you imagine you have not a nice spiny lobsters episodes, you have huge spaniel lobsters. It's a, it's more than one kilo.

Christophe (28:06):

One kilo plus. These are really big guys. So what, what do we do with these guys at some point after two years? Because they are really, really big individuals because we can track, uh, we know for each individual in the system and because we know from where they were originally collected, uh, or fished in, in the wild, thanks to the GPS location, we put them back thanks to our conservation programs with governments and foundations back to where they were originally collected in the wild. So they're going back to where they were originally collected with some advantages at that time, because the individuals will be three times bigger than two years before. So that means bigger, stronger, meaning less subject to predation from sharks eels, rays or whatsoever, or the predators. And also because we can control as of today reproduction, we can release back females that carry dozens of thousands of eggs that at some point will hatch in nature and further replenish Yeah. Stocks in the wide. So for fisheries, the model, it's pretty interesting be because initially we buy from fisheries, you know, uh, let's put it this way, teenagers in terms of size, these are market size, but these, these are, we could be considered as teenagers. They spend two years in our system and then their bilities back, and the fishermen can still again, collect them and they can even collect more because we are putting more to what we origin t[he eggs] in the back.

Abigail (29:39):

It's amazing. So you really are sort of, sort of passively sending lobsters to the market because you're actually putting the stronger, more survivable lobsters back out there that are, that will breed and be able to sort of have, have a greater opportunity to survival.  Uh, cuz I was gonna ask why, why you don't sell the lobsters when you're done back to the market. But they're probably too big.

Christophe (30:09):

They're pretty, they're they're huge. I can tell you they're huge

Abigail (30:13):

<laugh>. Like how big is that? Like in length?

Christophe (30:17):

Uh oh. [inaudible] It's, it's, it's pretty big. It's one kilo. It's approximately, I would say what, 60 a foot in centimeters, 60, 70 centimeters. But you have to see here, wow. Actually, because today the spiny lobsters that we, you know, you, you finding in supermarket at the restaurant are teenagers. This is really the, you know, the, and already for the European species, it, it took them already in the wild eight to 10 years to come to that size. Okay. They were very slowly in, in, in nature, which is not the same in the Caribbean and, and somewhere else. But if you, if you let them grow over time, after 20, 30, 40 years, they are these guys are huge, a huge, uh, it's really, but you don't find the, you know, these very large individuals anymore because of the pressure from the fisheries over time on the Yeah. On this population, unfortunately. Mm-hmm.

VO: After a short break, we’ll learn about Lagosta’s current challenges and their exciting plans for the future. 

BREAK: MTI & SPARK NO9

VO: We’re back with Happy Planet. One challenge Lagosta is facing is rising sea temperatures since they’re pumping water into their facility from the Mediterranean Sea 

Christophe (00:21):

Yeah, it's, it's very warm, uh, year. And, uh, same as for our spinal lobsters in Manco, because, uh, still the temperature that we are, uh, pumping at, um, uh, more than 20 meters in depth are still at 16 degrees Celsius. Uh, which is Wow. Five, five degrees more to usually what we usually have during this period of the year. So it's, uh, they, they have not seen this in 30 years. And, um, yeah, it's really a radically

Christophe (31:29):

Indeed? Well, it's, uh, what, what we see actually as observed for the last two, let's put it this way, two, three years actually. We see temperature of the water increasing, um, very dramatically starting already in May. Um, it's, it's start, it's getting worse and worse. And if you work with tropical species, it's naturally affecting them. But if you work with cold water species, they don't like warm temperatures, don't know what happens, especially specifically in the Mediterranean. When it comes to summer and the water gets warmer, these individuals go, you know, in the depth up to more than 100 meters in depth. So they really escape, you know, all the heat. In our system, it's different. Actually, we are a closed system. We are pumping water, not that a hundred meters, but of course, and it's getting warmer and warmer. That means you need to have a lot of, um, capacity in terms of, um, pumps, in terms of cooling systems or heating or cooling systems, uh, in place. And the, the, the, the, the impact is that we need to increase this capacity now It's, um, it's in an additional investment, um, in order to keep the, the right temperature for, for these individuals because we could just let the temperature go higher, but it, it'll affect the growth dramatically. Yeah. Therefore, no overall effect will take more time for you to, to raise these animals. Everything will be affected over time.

Abigail (33:01):

Right, right. Um, well that's, I mean, it's shocking to hear those, those numbers right now. Um, all right. 

Abigail (36:53):

Okay. Um, uh, so you, so you, you fell in love with the Mediterranean. That sounds, that sounds like the story. Um, so, okay, you mentioned that you're raising money, you're starting a, um, you're building a facility in Portugal. Uh, tell me about that. 

Christophe (37:13):

So in order to, uh, to expand, you know, our capacity, we are currently setting up, um, a large projection site that will be in, in Portugal. This is based on the thorough investigations that have been made for more than two years, trying to identify in Europe, um, and north of, uh, Africa, uh, a, site that could accommodate our technical requirements. Again, spiny lobsters we need to have really exceptional type of water quality. Um, and it's not easy to find a place where you have such type of profiles. Um, surprisingly, um, at the, and that was really a big surprise at that time when we started our, our operations in Monaco in 2014, is that Panaco has very good exceptional water, uh, surprisingly because there are a lot of boats and yeah, human activities, but the water of quality is really, really great. And we found similar type of profile in the, in Portugal, hence we are currently setting up, um, our large scale production site there.

Christophe (38:17):

Um, and the approach will be not to build, you know, start building, you know, uh, large concrete facilities, but is will be to use recycled maritime containers that are customized Yep. to our technical requirements. So it's, uh, that will facilitate the implementation Uh, meaning when you place the order, it'll take less time than just building a, you know, a large facility with concrete, or you need autherizations. Yeah, for sure. There are always delays here. You order your, your containers that are well customized for your needs, and you, you just, um, adapt them, let's put it this way, uh, pretty rapidly. And it's more like a plug and play approach. Um, yeah, [I love that.] In terms of implementation, in terms of execution and in terms of, so of investment, it is, uh, pretty interesting knowing that you can on, with such type of model, you can rapidly increase if we need the capacity as well, or if you need to move as well for any reason, the facility elsewhere, you can pretty rapidly do it, uh, as well. So that's the, that's

Abigail (39:27):

So if you're, sorry, sorry, go ahead. If you're building this facility, presumably you've got some sales in the works.

Christophe (39:33):

Exactly. So, um, primarily the, the, the whole production will be dedicated for the production of these molds, of these byproducts that we will then bioprocess to generate this unique biomedical chitosan that we will sell to, uh, the biopharma companies. Let's put this way. Yeah. For which we're already in, in close contacts. Um, it's, uh, it it'll rapidly, rapidly, very rapidly, uh, generate significant amount of revenue, uh, over time. So, so here we talking about millions pretty rapidly because we are targeting the, the biomedical segment and the approach, uh, would obviously generate significant amount of money that we were going to be in a position then to devote and to other type of activities as well. Again, here we are tackling only just a, a portion of the potential of spiny lobsters, um, right. It's huge. Um, it's huge in terms of potential, what we could really, um, take into consideration and move forward for, for, for, for the years to come.

Abigail (40:40):

One of our, uh, recent podcasts was on a young group of, uh, a young couple from Maine, uh, that worked with our lobster institute, and they have a skincare product, um, that they've made with lobster helo, um, uh, um, glycoproteins proteins. Right. And so, um, are there other apps that you could do with the, with the shells, the malts itself? It doesn't have to be Chitin does it, it could be something else.

Christophe (41:07):

Exactly. There are way other compounds that you can extract as well. We know we have, [it's amazing.] We have a lot of li we know, I mean, you can target, but obviously it requires other developments, bioprocesses, and so we need to work, you know, step by step. But we'll get there. But indeed, I mean, as I said, the potential is really, really big. I'm

Abigail (41:29):

Not That's awesome.

Christophe (41:30):

What I'm hearing what you say about this couple in, uh, in Maine, uh, I'm not surprised about it because, uh, again, that that's one of examples that will not only pop up today, but Yeah. In the future as well.

Abigail (44:12):

Amazing. Um, so just to be clear, you are in the middle of a fundraise right now, or you are? [That's correct]. What are you, what are you, are you looking for investors? 

Christophe (44:24):

We are, uh, we are obviously, uh, in touch with a lot of, uh, of parties currently performing, uh, due diligences, um, yeah, I mean, um, all around the world. Um, but it's still, uh, ongoing. So if there is any, anyone who is interested to be part of this exciting venture journey, uh, would be very glad to, uh, to get in touch. Um, we are currently performing a series A financing round of 10 million Swiss francs. Um, it's a bit more in US dollars. It's approximately, I think, I don't don't know exactly, 11 million, um, up to 5 million Swiss francs in, in equity. The rest will be in dept, uh, with banks primarily to, um, to support the implementation of the large scale facility in Portugal. But, um, yeah, we are still in discussion. It's not closed yet. Um, so any interested parties will be very glad to, uh, to, to be part of this again, to this exciting great, uh, journey.

Abigail (45:25):

It sounds pretty, pretty fun. And then you get to maybe go visit and play with the spiny lobsters.

Christophe (45:29):

<laugh>. We love to though

Abigail (33:01):

Right, right. Um, well that's, I mean, it's shocking to hear those, those numbers right now. Um, all right. So you are Swiss, that's correct. Switzerland has no ocean <laugh> indeed. How on earth did a, did a, did a young, how, how did you end up being in, in, in marine biology for starters? Um, sure. And, uh, and get involved in spiny lobsters?

Christophe (33:30):

Well, um, I, I, I think, uh, well, it's definitely passion that led me to, uh, to to, to today work in still in the, in this field. Uh, I've been exposed since my very early stage and years, um, with the ocean, specifically in, in the Mediterranean where I was going on vacation with my parents. And since my age of, you know, four or five, and I still remember, I can still remember already looking the, the whole day, um, you know, the little crabs and uh, and so on. I was already fascinated by these, uh, individuals. And passion has obviously led me to, uh, perform then studies, um, as well than Switzerland. So I went first to south of France, uh, for almost two years, uh, while I was exposed, uh, the university to Marine, um, maybe, um, courses, oceanography, and also get exposed to the Oceanographic Museum of Monoco with some contacts there already at that time.

Christophe (34:28):

And then, uh, I was, um, I went to, uh, to Florida for more than three years, uh, at the Florida Tech. And, um, what was really nice is that, first of all, that there was a division of aquaculture within the university, and I had, um, a portion of, uh, a lab in which I was able to do some experimentation. At that time, it was more trying to, to understand these animals, um, because again, nobody knows, well, spinal lobsters, it's really difficult to study them in nature. Um, so I really wanted to try to understand how they behave actually, um, in tanks. So that was the, the first aspect. And what was really interesting is that at that time, the, the university was closely working with Harbor Branch Oceanographic Institution, uh, that has now been, I'm not mistaken, acquired by, uh, university Fa u University, if I'm not mistaken.

Christophe (35:25):

But, uh, they also have a very large, uh, aquaculture division there. And, um, meeting a lot of people, getting a lot of, uh, insights, knowledge, uh, from these people. And, um, when we graduated in, in two thousands, um, I was really keen to, to do something in, in the field, but my ideas at that time were, were not aligned with, um, the technology. Um, that was not ready at that time, let's put this way, the, the market price was not the one that you see today on the market. Uh, so in terms of commercial fac, feasibility, it was really challenging. And also, uh, the, the people I wanted to work with were not available neither. So I decided to return back to Switzerland and to, um, to do business, uh, in terms of, uh, experience, expertise. So I was involved with, uh, numerous biotech companies. I also created, um, uh, three other biotech companies that are still active and primarily dedicated to the development of therapeutics for rare diseases. And, um, so that's why we, uh, uh, this is where I gained, you know, you know, all this experience in setting up, you know, startups, fundraising, and moving things, uh, forward. Yeah. And, um, yeah, that's a little bit the, the story.

Abigail (36:53):

Okay. Um, uh, so you, so you, you fell in love with the Mediterranean.

Abigail (41:42):

Yeah, they're blowing up. I mean, it's amazing. Um, so, uh, you sound like you've been very successful in the past. This pro, this project seems just amazing, very ripe for, uh, quick expansion. And, uh, there are a lot of people interested in this industry. Young entrepreneurs starting out today. They've got projects that are serving Blue Tech Tech. What, what advice would you give to them today?

Christophe (42:12):

Well, potential is it's definitely there specifically, specifically in the field of, you know, marine biology, um, ocean oceanography and so on. Um, if they have good Ides, um, good projects, um, they really need to, um, you know, keep forwards. And really, if they, if they're convinced about their idea, they, they should not necessarily listen to everyone. Uh, but, um, still, uh, you know, an external view, point of view to, uh, and being challenged is really important. But, uh, if they believe really, um, that they can do something with a project they're business idea, they, they really need to move forward. What is really important then is not only just trying to raise money, money is one thing, but you may have a good idea, good project, but what is for me, really important is to get the right people with you. Um, there are a lot of traps.

Christophe (43:06):

I mean, for young entrepreneurs. I've seen it also, uh, in the past. I mean, when you have a good idea, a lot of people would try to to be on board as well with you. Um, it might be good, but sometimes the more you are, um, there might be a redundancy of competencies of experience, expertise, and then it's, it's pretty difficult to, to change everything. Um, so what, what I would say is if you have a good idea, good project, get the right people, um, but getting the people that will make the difference. Um, so for At Lagosta what we have is, we don't have an army of people, actually. It's a small, small team, but there is no redundancy in terms of experience, expertise. Everyone knows actually what it needs to be done. Um, and, um, clear communication is really key trust between the individuals, trust, respect, and communication. And, um, if you have a good team, the good product, um, very likely will attract. And if you're passionate, you will attract investors and to bring it to, um, to success.

Abigail (45:32):

The fringe benefit. Um, well, look, thank you so much Christoph, today for your time. Uh, it's been really fun to hear about your, uh, business venture. It's, it's really exciting and I'm, and I just wish you the best of luck.

Christophe (45:46):

Thank you very much. Thank you for having me. And I hope that, uh, one day I'll be already in a position to welcome you, uh, at our facility in Monaco, and then in, uh, later this year in, uh, in Portugal for the large scale, uh, facility.

Abigail (46:00):

I love it. The Pan-European, uh, spiny lobster, you know, project. It's great. Um, thanks so much. It was really great. Um, uh, worth the wait, <laugh>.

CONCLUSION

• I can’t wait to check in with Christophe down the road and hear how this operation is going. It would be good to hear how hes doing with the climatic challenges. I just love this story and operation -and not just because I’m partial to everything French! I love the twists and turns. A kid in landlocked Switzerland wants to learn about marine aquaculture. Afteryears of research He end up in biotech. THen winds back into spiny lobsters aquaculture for seafood and then finally comes the real discovery that you don’t even need the lobster - the better business is in upcycling their molted shells for biotech. It’s like all of Christophe's worlds are colliding in this project. I’ll be curious to see if that’s a trend wiht more seasoned entrepreneurs as we continue this podcast journey. Upcylcing is another trend we are going to hear about more and more in this podcast. 

CREDITS

Thank you for listening. Please follow Happy Planet wherever you listen and leave us a rating and review - it really helps new listeners discover the show [feel free to elaborate on why this matters to you]. Happy Planet was reported and hosted by me. I am also the Executive Producer. The talented Dylan Heuer [hoyer] is our producer and editor. Composer GEORG BRANDL EGOFF created our theme music. Learn more about my work and get in touch by visiting happyplanetpodcast.com.