HAPPY PLANET

Propelling Green Hydrogen Forward with Tore Enger of TECO2030

February 01, 2023 Abigail Carroll Season 1 Episode 12
HAPPY PLANET
Propelling Green Hydrogen Forward with Tore Enger of TECO2030
Show Notes Transcript

This week’s guest, Tore Enger, Founder and CEO of the group TECO 2030, is pioneering the fuel cell stacks designed for green hydrogen in trucking and shipping, industries traditionally reliant on diesel fuel.

After speaking with Tore, my worldview on renewables started to broaden. I’d love to know what you think after you listen to the episode. Please feel free to email me with your thoughts. 

One note about this episode, I break down the basic mechanics of green hydrogen in the introduction - what it is, how it works. I’ve tried to keep the explanation short (it’s about one minute) but I wanted the episode to be accessible to all.

In this episode, we talk about:

  • Mechanics of green hydrogen
  • How green hydrogen is well adapted to the maritime industry
  • TECO 2030’s role in the green hydrogen revolution - and who they are working with
  • The future of trucking with respect to green hydrogen
  • Who the big players of the renewable industry will be in the future
  • Norway’s role in the impact economy
  • Oslo’s green hydrogen passenger car program
  • How some of the biggest players in the renewable space might surprise you
  • Building a climate legacy

To hear my conversation with Tore, tune in on Apple, Spotify, or Google. And don’t forget to subscribe on your platformto get automatic updates. If you like what we’re doing, please do spread the word.

Many thanks to Maine Technology Institute, Maine Venture Fund and Spark No.9 for their sponsorship. 

I’d also like to thank our promotional partners. Investable Oceans is a US-based angel platform specializing in ocean-related startups. Oceanovation is a Dutch-South African hub for entrepreneurs and investors in blue tech innovation.

I’d love your thoughts on how the podcast is going and please, if you like the show, 


TECO2030
TORE ENGER

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   HOST VO: Welcome to Happy Planet where we speak with entrepreneurs, investors, and thought leaders driving the impact economy. I am your host Abigail Carroll. 


Today we welcome Tore (Tore-eh) Enger (check how to pronounce last name), CEO of TECO2030 (TEE-coh), a Norwegian public company on the forefront of the green hydrogen revolution.  Toré is putting mission first - he even integrated the deadline for the UN’s sustainability goals into his company name! 


TECO2030 (TEE-coh),creates Fuel Cell Stacks, which are essentially motors that can be powered by green hydrogen. The company has major strategic partners, grantors, and investors from around the globe who are helping him put his cutting edge technology into practice as early as this year. 


I’d like to give some context here. Hydrogen is a known energy source and Green hydrogen is a clean form of hydrogen that is made by breaking up Water, H20, into the H and the O, the Hydrogen and oxygen, through a process called electrolysis that is powered by a renewable source. FUEL Cell stacks, discussed here, REVERSE that process, they put the Hydrogen and Oxygen back together, creating water, and in doing so generate energy. The only byproduct of green hydrogen is water.


Green Hydrogen is often compared with batteries. They could have many of the same applications, powering cars, trucks, boats, planes. Many have dismissed green hydrogen as being too far off and too expensive and too hard to transport. But Tore says, despite the challenges, green hydrogen is at a tipping point - and he’s helping to create the momentum. Note that I talked with Tore at the end of 2022 so when he’s referenced next year, he’s talking about 2023. Lets go to the interview


Abigail (00:05):

Tore, yeah. Wonderful. That helps <laugh>. It's always good place to start. Um, so, uh, I'm, uh, well first of all, thank you for coming here today. It's a great honor. Um, you're the first public company that we've had on this podcast.

Tore (00:25):

Wow, That's exciting.

Abigail (00:27):

<laugh> It's exciting for us for sure. So, um, you're the CEO of TECO 23. It does not go unnoticed. That the, go ahead.

Tore (00:39):

[inaudible]not 23 [inaudible] 20 30.

Abigail (00:42):

Oh, sorry. Of teco, uh, TECO. Is it TECO or teco?

Tore (00:46):

That's of to Teco 2030.

Abigail (00:48):

Okay. You're the CEO of TECO2030, a Norway based public company that's focused on decarbonizing the maritime industry. Yes. Which, um, I've read on your website, is responsible for 2.5% of the global greenhouse gases. Um, and it is not unnoticed. It does not go unnoticed that, uh, 2030 is part of your, uh, name, but also the reference to the UN sustainability development goals. (MAYBE CUT FOR INTRO)

Tore (01:19):

Very correct.

Abigail (01:20):

<laugh> that the Thank you for coming here today. Thank

Tore (01:24):

You for inviting me.

Abigail (01:26):

So tell me, I, so much news is coming out of your company right now, and your stock has doubled in six weeks. It is very exciting.

Tore (01:38):

Yes, of course. We have had a lot of very nice, uh, deal flows, uh, lately. And this is of course, um, things we have been working on for a long, long time. And then suddenly a lot of things is coming along at the same time. And, uh, that is  um, uh, we highly appreciate that. And, uh, we have a great team of people who has been working many, many hours on, on all the different things we are working on. So, um, it's a great teamwork and, uh, we are very pleased that, uh, a lot of things is coming along at the same time, but we have, waiting for that four quarter should be, uh, with, with a good flow on news.

Abigail (02:19):

It's, it's pretty amazing. So I am really interested in, um, you've got sort of three product lines, but I'm really interested in this sort of green hydrogen work you're doing. Uh, it's something we hear.

Tore (02:34):

What I think is very important to, to know Abigail, is that we are not a hydrogen producer.

Abigail (02:40):

Yeah.

Tore (02:41):

We are. What we are doing, we are creating tomorrow's engine, where hydrogen is the fuel.

Abigail (02:51):

Yeah.

Tore (02:52):

So we can talk about the value chain when it comes to hydrogen, but that is, we have nothing to do with that. Yeah.

Abigail (02:59):

I

Tore (03:00):

Mean, we are like, somebody have to, to, to fix the gasoline. We are fixing the engine, but now, got it. We are fixing the engine. Somebody have to fix the hydrogen.

Abigail (03:10):

Right. Because you can't just put hydrogen in a classic, you know, um, engine and expect it to work.

Tore (03:16):

No.

Abigail (03:17):

So you, but you're are making a huge bet on this sort of green hydrogen model and that green hydrogen is gonna have a, a role in this maritime space. Um, why do you, you know, why have you gone in this direction? Why do you think it's, you know, why do you, why are you betting on this?

Tore (03:37):

We, we have actually been very active on the environmental side of the maritime industry since 2008. Um, and we have been following the trends. We have been following the big waves, what is coming next? And for sure, um, hydrogen will enter the market in huge, uh, amount in, in ‘24, ‘25 and then increase. But it could also be methanol, it could also be ammonia, but all this is driven by hydrogen. So you need a <inaudible>. But, but, uh, for sure. And you know, and green hydrogen is the only, only pathway to zero emission. Everything else has some emission. Green hydrogen has warm air and water, that's all. No pollution. Zero.

Abigail (04:34):

So why are there so many naysayers about green hydrogen? Because we hear it all the time. People are like, oh, it's, you know, it's all solar or it's all, you know, why are people naysaying it when it seems so obvious that this is gonna be part of the part of the solution?

Tore (04:53):

Uh, because I think that all the people who is saying that they have done their homework, uh, they can see where everything is going. And if you look into the re-power of EU, if you look into what the Biden administration is doing now, if you look into Japan, into Korea, Portugal, France, Germany, this happens all over. The train has left the station, it's all about hydrogen. This is the green shift.

Abigail (05:19):

So

Tore (05:19):

Right. For those who don't believe in it, fine. But they are, they are gonna fail.

Abigail (05:25):

Interesting. So now you've started with the maritime industry, which is something that we're looking at a lot in this podcast is the whole ocean economy. Why are you starting with the, with the maritime industry? What, what is that? Um, how is that a great place to start?

Tore (05:44):

Because that is our home space. We have been in the marine industry since 1994. We know all our clients, the remaining part of the TECO group is having offices spread all over the world from Houston in west to Singapore in east. And we know all our clients, we don't have to penetrate the market because they are already existing clients. So, so we have been discussing this with, of course, many, many ship owners and um, uh, industry players. And, uh, you know, shipping is counting for almost 3% of the greenhouse gases. And as an example, if the maritime industry is, it doesn't do anything and everybody else is, the maritime industry will end, uh, in the range of 15 to 18% of greenhouse gases. [Wow.] Which will never take place. So all this is controlled by local government and of course IMO, international Maritime Organization, which is a part of the United Nations. So this is driven by international and local rules and regulations.

Abigail (06:53):

Yeah.

Tore (06:53):

Let's take for example, the Norwegian heritage fjords from January, 2026. You are not allowed to go in there unless you can move on zero emission by law.

Abigail (07:07):

Wow.

Tore (07:09):

Wow. And this is going, and this is something you're gonna see many places in the world. Um, (let's say that Rotterdam is saying that this is, we are the biggest port) "lets say that the biggest port in the world is saying" n the world with the most tonnage. You are not allowed to come in there anymore. If you cannot come in on the zero emission. Then you need equipment. So you can do the last hour and you can stay the day when you are discharging and charging cargo and you can leave again the first hour on zero emission equipment. If they can do that, it helps the world. Fantastic.

Abigail (07:44):

Yeah. And there really aren't, what are the other options? If, you know, if you're not gonna go to, to hydrogen, what are the other options? Uh,

Tore (07:55):

You can go battery, you can go battery, of course. Um, but the point is that, um, what about the grid?

Abigail (08:02):

Right.

Tore (08:03):

Everybody's, everybody's talking about the grid, nobody, uh, battery. Nobody's talking about where can we actually get electricity to to, to recharge these batteries. Right. We can do it in Oslo, no props. We are, um, in the frontline. Um, but uh, in the US for example, all over the world, it's not an easy task.

Abigail (08:22):

Right. And the battery is so heavy that it adds a huge amount of weight to the boat.

Tore (08:28):

Battery is very heavy, but of course you can do a lot of biofuels. There's many things you can do to make the world a better place. We have just taken it all the way to zero emission.

Abigail (08:39):

Yeah. But

Tore (08:40):

That is green hydrogen and PEM fuel cells. Yeah. As soon as you start to use an ammonia cracking or a methanol cracking, you are much better than today. today. But you are not zero emission. Yeah. But I'm not saying that you have to be zero emission. You just have to do your part of the job to make Right the place a better stay, uh, for generations to come.

Abigail (09:03):

Yeah. So can you, can we back up a little bit and kind of get into, not too much in detail, but basically how do the mechanics of, of hydro, of green hydrogen work? Can we, you know, you are creating an engine, but there's a, a green hydrogen fuel that's coming into that engine. Um, what are the basic mechanics behind it?

Tore (09:25):

We see that, uh, for the first sea going projects coming up, which you're gonna see, uh, will arrive in '24 and '25, you will see a sort of a container based, uh, hydrogen fueling, where you have hydrogen, uh, containers inside a bigger container, and you are basically swapping containers, uh, wherever you can. And you just get a new one, which is filled up with hydrogen and you leave the empty one. So it's just to be a sort of, um, cycling on that. Yeah. Um, and, and of course we also think that, um, what we can see that the first mover of hydrogen, uh, is basically short sea shipping. For example, Rotterdam to Oslo over to UK, a pool like that. And of course you have hundreds of those pools in the world. And then, and then you will for sure see ferry stretches, the long ones, not the short one because they can use battery. But the long ones, that will be the first movers. And then of course you're gonna see some container ships, uh, which is again, into the short sea shipping segment. But we think that you very soon will see big ships having equipment so they can operate on, on less emission, the last hour in stay the day and the last hour out again, because that's helping a lot. But the long distance, they will still go on on normal fuel. And, you know, according to American bureau shipping, ABS, in 2050, still 40% will be fossil soil fuels.

Abigail (11:07):

Wow.

Tore (11:09):

So for those, uh, green freaks nerds, which thinks that this is just to switch from black to green, no, this is going to take 30, 40, 50, 60 years.

Abigail (11:22):

Yeah.

Tore (11:23):

But we have to, but somebody have to be a part of starting all this.

Abigail (11:26):

Right. So it's a, it's a really long haul. And what I'm, what I'm sort of amazed at is it feels like maybe we're at a little bit of a tipping point, or at least you are. It feels like this is actually coming on pretty quickly. And so it's coming on now. So are you gonna, um, you know, what's the timeframe looking like for you? It sounds like you're gonna have some stuff, you know, some ships moving with your technology next year.

Tore (11:54):

Uh, I think that the first you're gonna see physically, it's a, it's a high truck, a huge truck that you're gonna see already, uh, next summer.

Abigail (29:46):

Yeah. Are we all gonna be driving hydrogen cars? Do you see this applying to our every days or is that gonna stay bigger industrial?

Tore (29:55):

13 to 15 years from today, Yes.

Abigail (29:58):

Interesting. And what's gonna,

Tore (30:00):

I would say that from 2030 and onwards, I think you're gonna see, uh, a lot of passenger cars on hydrogen. BMW has already started, Toyota has started, Hyundai, they has started. Many things have started.

Abigail (30:15):

And um, but you know, people talk about the,

Tore (30:18):

Just one thing, keep in mind that the, the passenger cars is not a critical one to move to hydrogen tomorrow.

Abigail (30:25):

Yeah.

Tore (30:26):

Because what they are releasing of emission is peanuts compared to the big things,

Abigail (30:31):

The industrial Right.

Tore (30:33):

The trucks.

Abigail (30:34):

and airplanes.

Tore (30:35):

Airplanes. In the US you have 16 million trucks.

Abigail (30:40):

Right.

Tore (30:41):

In Europe you have 6 million. 22 millions Trucks, we definitely should do something.

Abigail (30:47):

Yeah. And, and why do we think that uh, hydrogen green hydrogen's gonna be the solution and not batteries and EVs?

Tore (30:56):

First of all, uh, on trucks? I think that you will very soon see that these guys is already switching to hydrogen. Wow. Because the battery is too heavy. A on a 40 ton track, on a 40 ton track, the battery is six ton, which means that you're losing six ton of cargo. Yeah. And a fuel cell would be most likely something like one ton.

Abigail (31:22):

Yeah. Yeah. So just,

Tore (31:24):

And where are you going to get, where, where are all these trucks going to pick up the grid? Where, where can the load, where can I charge?

Abigail (31:31):

Right. And the time of charging because, so hydrogen, it's gonna work just like fuel. You're gonna, it's, it will be a liquid form

Tore (31:40):

That depends. Yeah. But you, you go, you will in, in the in soon you are well in, in Oslo we have 500 hydrogen driven cars and they're just going to two hydrogen stations, which is next to the gasoline station. And they basically fill the same way as you fill gasoline.

Abigail (31:58):

Wow. And the price, uh, you know, people talk about the price of green hydrogen, it's too expensive, but I imagine technology can solve that. Right?

Tore (32:08):

Economy of scale.

Abigail (32:09):

Right,

Tore (32:10):

Right. It's all about economy scale.

Abigail (32:12):

Yeah.

Tore (32:13):

We are, I know that now people are saying that, uh, hydrogen is costing from four to 11 and it should be down to 1.5. So let's see, it will take some years.

Abigail (32:23):

Yeah.

Tore (32:23):

In the meantime, government have to, to be a part of supporting the gap, uh, which they just have to

Abigail (32:30):

That's amazing. So there are already cars running around oslo also that are hydrogen run ?

Tore (32:36):

500.

Abigail (32:37):

500 and who's, who made those cars?

Tore (32:40):

Toyota, for example.

Abigail (32:44):

Interesting. Um, and is Toyota has an EV out though too, right?

Tore (32:49):

Pardon?

Abigail (32:50):

Toyota also has an EV out or did they skip EV and they just went to hydrogen

Tore (32:55):

They have EV too

Abigail (32:55):

Yeah, I it seems like we're, we're betting on a bunch of technologies and we'll see what, what kind of wins the consumer's hearts at the end.

Tore (33:04):

What, what we are saying, what what we, what what I think what the industry is saying is that whatever runs on gasoline today can run on battery tomorrow. Yeah. Whatever runs on diesel today or more heavy fuel have to go to, you have to go to hydrogen.

Abigail (33:20):

Interesting. 

Abigail (12:04):

Yep.

Tore (12:04):

And, uh, in, uh, last part of the third quarter, you will see a huge construction site with a hydrogen container and a fuel cell container operating a construction site on zero emission. Yeah. And then end on next year, beginning of '24, you will most likely see the first floating units from us taking delivery of fuel cells.

Abigail (12:31):

That's amazing.

Tore (12:33):

We own next year we just have a small prototype production and we are moving into full scale production in, in the beginning of '24.

Abigail (12:43):

That's amazing. It looks like you just announced a, a grant to a, a, a European Union grant to, um, to do a demo with a big shipping facility.

Tore (12:57):

We have, we have been given a 5 million Euro in grants from, uh, uh, horizon Europe. And, uh, the partner in that project is, uh, shell.

Abigail (13:10):

Yep. Uh, Interesting.

Tore (13:11):

And, and they are also putting the same amount of money, uh, into, into the whole project. And then we are going to retrofit a 18,000 deadweight, uh, tunnel from a Swedish shipping company called EkTank. [Yeah]. And this ship is built in 2018, and it's a normal ships, uh, cannot do much about the, the, the emission, but with our equipment, she can then suddenly move around in the Baltic, uh, being, uh, operating, uh, on, on a zero emission basis. So this is very good.

Abigail (13:44):

That's amazing. And it seems to me that this retrofitting is a really important part of your plan. Right?

Tore (13:51):

The retrofitting will be the name of the game for the next 5, 6, 7 years before this will be, uh, on board and you build right away because, But when we say retrofit, we have many projects now where we have new ships coming out with a diesel electric engine built in the, in the Middle East and the far east and then coming to Europe. And we will retrofit with hydrogen means that they can operate on both hydrogen and diesel.

Abigail (14:19):

Oh, really Interesting. Um, that seems like a very, a game changing technology so that they can use the ships, you know, in different ways. Different ports have different accesses. How is the hydrogen fuel gonna be distributed, um, to these different ports? Are all these ports gonna be sort of have hydrogen available?

Tore (14:40):

I think that, um, you know, what you see in the, in the oil market today, how all kinds of products are being distributed around the world, from production site here to production site there, to refineries, blending and so on, and moved on forward. In about 10, 15 years, you will see that hydrogen is going to be operated exactly the same except that there will be different places where the production takes place. So for example, Norway is, uh, luckily still on the map. And uh, and of course then you're gonna see a, because we have a lot of wind, so wherever you have plenty of wind or sun, you have a good base to, to start to produce green hydrogen. So, uh, Western part of South America is going to be a huge, uh, supplier of hydrogen Australia the same, uh, part of Northern Africa, middle East, and places where you have a lot of wind.

Abigail (15:43):

So who are the big players in producing hydrogen right now? The green hydrogen,

Tore (15:49):

That's not many because there hasn't actually started yet.

Abigail (15:51):

Right, right.

Tore (15:52):

It's now coming slowly, slowly. Yeah. But, uh, for example, in Saudi Arabia, uh, in, in the new town they are talking about called Neom, they have just ordered the biggest electrolyzer in the world to produce green hydrogen.

Abigail (16:06):

Wow.

Abigail (27:41):

So I'm also interested that you were talking about Saudi Arabia, uh, being a pro, uh,  producer of green hydrogen. So, uh, that's interesting. Can you tell me a little bit more about that?

Tore (27:53):

Yeah, if you Google something called Neom, it's N e O m.com that is, uh, a new part of Saudi which is going to be green, it's going to be international, it's not going to be any Sharia law and it's going to be zero emission. And this is, uh, this is a big project and you know, when when saudis do things, they're doing big, [right.] And um, and uh, they, I think they are been putting aside something like 4% now, uh, of the total, uh, oil income to support green projects. 


Tore (16:07):

And the other day it was announced that a electrolyzer company in the US has sold a 35 megawatt electrolyzers to a project in, in the US Canada for, for, um, produ producing, um, green hydrogen in, uh, close to Niagara Falls.

Abigail (16:26):

Very interesting. 


VO: After a short break, we’ll talk about TECO’s (TEE-coh)  strategic partners and vision for the future. We’ll also learn about some surprising players in the green hydrogen space.


BREAK: MAINE TECHNOLOGY INSTITUTE + SPARK


VO: Welcome back to Happy Planet. 

Abigail (16:26):

Um, cuz all, not all green hydrogen is the same either. Right. There's, there's different levels of green in the green hydrogen space.

Tore (16:37):

Uh, green is green,

Abigail (16:38):

Green is green. I like that. Okay.

Tore (16:43):

But then you have blue and lot of colors.

Abigail (16:44):

Yeah. Right.

Tore (16:46):

So where are we getting it from

Abigail (16:47):

Right. You just want it

Tore (16:49):

Green hydrogen is basically sun and, uh, wind and voltage.

Abigail (16:54):

Yeah. And so I saw that sun hydrogen, which is a stock that I've been following for quite a while now, did a big investment in in you and they've got, uh, someone on your board now. Um, what's, what is that relationship?

Tore (17:10):

I think that, uh, I've been together, I've been talking to Tim, uh, for at least two hours today already. Um, <laugh> and, and, um, I think they're coming from, from, from from their part of the value chain and um, let's see where it all takes us. But, um, when Dell took, when, when technology, which belongs to Sun Hydrogen, it's up and, and doing big scale production is going to be a fantastic product. Product. Absolutely. They are, they are turning some straight into hydrogen, uh, and, and, um, they could, they could maybe they could be a hydrogen supplier to, to various ports around the world or big industry places where we have a lot of sun and things like that. And, um, when they are ready, uh, it's going to be fantastic. And, and I think together these guys are working in the US environment. We are working in the European, we have a lot of things to learn from each other, and we are looking forward to a long and good relations with hydrogen in the years, decades to come.

Abigail (18:18):

That's real. It's really exciting. So I'm interested in, it seems, I, I love that you're a Norwegian company, obviously there's this sort of, you know, you've a long history of Norway, of, you know, in the shipping industry, but you're also, um, an economy that has been buoyed by fossil fuels. So how is it that you've made this shift to, uh, green hydrogen and, you know, you know, a lot of other sort of, um, uh, green technologies in a country that has had this history of fossil fuels has

Tore (18:53):

Also, first of all, I cannot say that Norway is in the forefront of, of the green hydrogen, but we have, but we can be, uh, a huge player because we have a nice location. Uh, it's very windy in Norway. And of course we have a lot of gas so we can produce not green hydrogen, but hydrogen.

Abigail (19:12):

Yeah.

Tore (19:13):

Um, but the main reason why, why we are producing what we going to produce in Norway, that's because it's not so very labor intensive. Mm-hmm. And Norwegian are quite good on high-tech and we are quite efficient. So, um, we, we was fitting the business model into a huge AVL computer, uh, to see where in the world we could actually put off the production. And of course, when we was putting all this info into the computer, we was dreaming about that Norway should come out as one of the answers to where we could do this. And, um, when the computer said Norway, we were saying, hurray this we going

Abigail (19:56):

That's wonderful. It's nice to be,

Tore (19:59):

So now we are, now we have established the factory, open the northern parts, so we all on the right side of the electrical prices. And uh, I think we are, we are, we are. Okay. <laugh>

Abigail (20:11):

That's, it's, it's a, it's a great story. So this is gonna come to market in, you know, two years or the beginning of 2024. Um, how long do you Pardon?

Tore (20:25):

14 months.

Abigail (20:26):

14 months. I love it <laugh>. Okay. And how long is it gonna take for this stuff to really scale and for us to be really talking green hydrogen for it to become part of our daily lexicon?

Tore (20:39):

Yeah, again, green hydrogen, we have nothing to do with the green hydrogen. You know, we are producing the engine. Right,

Abigail (20:44):

I understand. We

Tore (20:45):

Are, we are aiming for having a productional 400 megawatt in, uh, in, in 2025 and 1.6 gigawatt in 2030. That is what we are, uh, lining up now, um, production wise. But if, if, if the, if the demand is com coming even faster, we can ramp up faster and we have facilities so we can ramp up to produce up there. Um, I think we are not far away from five gigawatts.

Abigail (21:18):

Yep. And you just announced a production partnership with thyssenkrupp was that right?

Tore (21:23):

thyssenkrupp is going to deliver all the production equipment, which, uh, thyssenkrupp is doing all over the world. They have more than a hundred thousand people employed. They have like 35 billion euro in turnover and they are German and they are quality, uh, without compromise. Um, not the cheapest, but absolutely the best of the best. So since we are working with other people's money, we have to avoid as much risk as possible. And then you have to go for the best.

Abigail (21:55):

So are do, do you, speaking of money, are you gonna be fundraising? Do you need to raise more money or are you gonna rely on the stock for that? Or, um, how do you, how do you finance this future?

Tore (22:06):

We have already raised, including grants not far away from 60 million euro. So on the financial side we good. So when we gonna do the next round? I don't know. We have no stress at all.

Abigail (22:21):

Yeah. Well the stock certainly seems very happy about what, what's been going on. <laugh>

Tore (22:26):

Very nice. We love to deliver results to shareholders.

Abigail (22:29):

Yeah. Well I gotta get on that one. <laugh>. Um, so tell me, uh, uh, how did you, you know, you've been in the maritime industry, you've had this TECO company, the group, you know, you started this 30 years agoAnd how did, how did you sort of start thinking about, um, sort of the, the climate issue and, you know, decarbonizing the world? When did this really become your core mission?

Tore (22:55):

We have been, um, a big owner in a Norwegian company called, uh, wow is listed in Oslo and one of the daughter companies is called ScanShip and Scanship is the biggest supplier of, um, water treatment sewage, uh, in particular aboard cruise ships. Uh, so we have been heavily, we was the biggest owner in scan ship from 2008 and to 2017. Yeah.

Tore (23:27):

So we have been on the environmental side all the time, u

h, and all. And yet we also have our, uh, exhaust gas cleaning system, the scrubber, the future funnel, which we actually sold the first one the other day. Um, and this is because of the, the, the, the the global sulfar cap, which took place, uh, from January, 2020. Um, and we have, and we have, we have, we have installed hundred and 130-150scrub towers for all the suppliers since 2011. Wow. And we have been a part of this, uh, decarb all the way. And, um, and in 2020 we decided that, um, fuel cells is our future. So, um, then we went full speed and, and here we are. 


Abigail (24:15):

That's amazing. So are you gonna make these engines for different types of vehicles and transportation units, or are you gonna stick in the maritime industry?

Tore (24:26):

We will stick in the maritime industry for a fuel cell system.

Abigail (24:31):

Yeah.

Tore (24:31):

But we can be a subsupplier to many other modules. For example, the high truck, uh, because we also have a much higher potential, uh, stack production than module production. So we basically, we have two streams there. We have the modules where we are making everything. And, and that is very simple because this is 400 kilowatt. So if you want one module or 400, or if you want 10 modules and you have four megawatt, or if you want hundred modules and you have 40 megawatt, this is just stacking. Hmm. So you have to make this as simple as possible to get, um, economy of scale. 

Abigail (25:20):

Yeah. So how do, how do you scale this? I mean, it seems like you've got a lot of partnerships going. This is, I mean the, this is such big industrial stuff. I mean, it, it, it's very hard for one company, I think. And, and there's that whole vertical chain. So is it, is it through strategic partnerships? How, how do you, how do you grow this into a Well,

Tore (25:42):

I mean we, we only have strategic partnership on the development side and on the production side, we only have two strategic physical partners. We have Sun Hydrogen as a financial strategic partner. Yeah. But on the, on the product side, we actually have AVL which is our development partners. And then we have thyssenkrupp, which is delivering our production equipment. Yeah. And, and the marketing, um, we are doing ourself of course because, uh, we know the industry, we know our clients. (CUT? SINCE HE ALREADY SAID THIS?)

Abigail (26:14):

Yeah. You were just in the states?

Tore (26:16):

Yeah, I, I was in, yes, last week I was in, in New York. I was in Vancouver yesterday, I was in London. So, um, I'm all over.

Abigail (26:24):

So everybody's pretty excited about this. We're just, we're just, you know, it's, it's gonna happen. People are buying in.

Tore (26:31):

Yeah. Let's see. But, uh, we are working on, uh, not too far away from 90 different projects today, uh, to, to to, to fill up our production for 24 and 25 and 26 and onwards. So we are quite active out there. But, um, I think that most of the ship owners in the world, they know about TECO and they know what we are doing on the fuel cell.

Abigail (26:52):

Yeah. Um, and they don't have much time because basically regulations we hope are gonna force the hand of a lot of the industry to get to clean up their act.

Tore (27:03):

I'm not going to talk about, um, what the, what our clients is going to do, but, um, for sure they have to do something.

Abigail (27:10):

Yeah. And is the states, I mean, I know that Europe is really ahead of us on a lot of the climate policy. Uh, stuff are, you know, we're, we're a little bit lagging. Are you optimistic that in the United States we're gonna, you know, push a little bit further now in the green world? Or how do you see it?

Tore (27:29):

I think that the administration you have now is doing a fantastic job and they really want to move forward and be in the front line again where they should be. And, um, I think they are on the right way.

Abigail (28:38):

Interesting.

Tore (28:39):

So all the major oil companies today is extremely active in, in the change.

Abigail (28:47):

Right. You mentioned Shell as well,

Tore (28:49):

Shell , BP And Saudi Aramco. All of them. Yeah. Everybody.

Abigail (28:54):

They're all investing in the future cuz they know it's gonna shift smart, it's

Tore (28:59):

Going be a transition and of course they will. All the big guys will still be big guys. They're just, uh, moving from black to green gold.

Abigail (29:06):

Yep. Yep. Amazing. Um, so do you have a, do you personally, did you know what, what, what lights your fire about all of this green, no pun intended. What gets you excited about this hydrogen space? Um, you know, personally what, you know, how, how do you see this impact that you can help make on the world?

Tore (29:29):

No, we, we, at least we do everything we can and, uh, we are do the best as we can and that is the best as we can and we cannot do anything better than that. And, um, I hope that, uh, in 20 years from now I can sit with my grandchildren and say that, uh, we was a part of it from the beginning.

Abigail (33:20):

Interesting. Interesting. Well, that's, that's, that's amazing. Um, I'm, I'm just, I'm so excited about this whole thing and I'm so excited for your company. Uh, what advice do you have for, you know, other entrepreneurs in this climate or impact space?

Tore (33:37):

I think everybody has to do a little bit, uh, everybody. Uh, and if, if, if, uh, everybody do a little thing, that is going to help a lot.

Abigail (33:46):

Yeah. Yeah.

Tore (33:47):

It's not so difficult.

Abigail (33:49):

So, and what are the, you know, next big steps that you right in front of you at, at TECO?

Tore (33:55):

I, the next, the next big steps for us, uh, except that we, we think we are doing big steps every day, but, uh, of course we have the launch of the high truck, uh, next summer.

Abigail (34:06):

Yeah.

Tore (34:08):

Uh, we have, um, a launch of, um, the hydrogen container to, to, uh, the construction site in the third quarter.

Abigail (34:17):

Yeah.

Tore (34:17):

And in between that we going, uh, develop the sales and, and release the contracts to, to the market so they know that we are moving on in the right way.

Abigail (34:27):

Yeah. Well, it's, it's, it's pretty impressive and, um, I'm, I'm really happy to see it and, uh, a lot of people are looking at this maritime space, but you're, you're in it and you're making things happen. So that's, that's pretty exciting.

Tore (34:40):

It's very, we have been living for almost 30 years, so at least we, we know the space.

Abigail (34:44):

Yeah. Yeah. Well, it seems like a, a great bet. Um, uh, well, I, is there anything else you'd like to cover?

Tore (34:54):

No, I think we are happy. I think we're okay. Okay. I think I've covered the most, the most important things.

Abigail (34:59):

Okay. Well, thank you so much, Tore. I'm so grateful for your time this morning or this afternoon.


CONCLUSION

I was so happy to connect with Tore who is absolutely everywhere right now prompting his fuel cell stack technology. His fuel cell stack the maritime industry appears to be the first of its kind and could have a huge impact on the whole industry and on the ocean. But I also enjoyed the broader discussion about the future of green hydrogen as a whole. Maybe I’ll hold off on getting that TESLA for a few more years. I might end up driving a Green Hydrogen Toyota! Another thing that struck me was how Toré sees his legacy. Like many of our mission driven entrepreneurs, he wants his legacy to be for his grandchildren to know that he was part of the solution.  


Thank you for tuning in. Please follow Happy Planet wherever you listen and leave us a rating and review - it really helps new listeners discover the show. Happy Planet was reported and hosted by me. I am also the Executive Producer. The talented Dylan Heuer [hoyer] is our producer and editor. Composer GEORG BRANDL EGOFF created our theme music. Learn more about my work and get in touch by visiting happyplanetpodcast.com.