Innovating a Post-Antibiotic World with Griffin O'Driscoll

In Happy Planet’s third episode we meet Griffin O’Driscoll, the young CEO of Organicin Scientific. Griffin joined forces with his professor Dr. Margaret Riley to commercialize her 25+ years of research on bacteriocins, anti-microbial proteins that kill bacteria in a targeted way. Organicin is now creating products for the aquaculture industry, both to keep seafood safer for consumption and to reduce mortality in farming. That’s just the tip of the iceberg of what they think they can do….

Learn how antibiotics became standard issue, giving rise to big Pharma, and how, by looking back at techniques used before the discovery of penicillin, we may have found the way forward to a new post-antibiotic age. I hope you find this conversation as fascinating and hope-inspiring as I did.

Company website: 
https://www.organicinscientific.com

Mentions: 
www.sea-ahead.com
www.techstars.com

Transcript

SCRIPT

HOST VO: Welcome to Happy Planet an impact economy podcast where we speak with entrepreneurs, investors and thought leaders in search of profit and planetary health. I am your host Abigail Carroll. Our first season is about the ocean economy, a world I am intimately familiar with, and where some of the greatest environmental impacts are being forged from business innovation.

In this episode you’ll meet Griffin O’Driscoll. Griffin is the exceptionally young founder and CEO of Organicin Scientific, a biotech startup with the potential to revolutionize how we treat harmful bacteria. The company’s mission is to reduce the world's reliance on antibiotics by providing safe and sustainable alternatives that will protect our food supply, and population, from disease. 

When presented with opportunities to launch in the pharmaceutical market, agricultural sector, and beyond, Griffin and his team decided to start their journey with aquaculture where, just like in agriculture, harmful bacteria present serious threats. From food safety concerns for oyster farmers, to mortality issues in shrimp farming, it was fascinating to learn about the solutions presented by their technology. 

Let’s jump in to better understand the nuts and bolts of this biotechnology and why I think it’s such an exciting opportunity. 

Abigail (00:23):

Um, uh, no, it's not. Okay. Okay. Welcome to the podcast, Griffin. 

Griffin (00:29):

Hi, Abigail. Thanks for having me.

Abigail (00:32):

Uh, let's cut to the chase here You are three years out of college, and you are a CEO of biotech startup that you founded with a former professor and classmate that has global paradigm shifting potential. First of all, congratulations. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, and secondly, how did you land here?

Griffin (00:49):

Yes. Um, well, it, it wasn't completely on purpose, um, but basically it, you know, I, I studied biochemistry, um, in undergrad at, at UMass Amherst. Before that, I was a bunch of different majors. Um, something that had to do with science, something that didn't. Um, and I, it kind of at one point, you know, it feels like I fell into the lap of it. Um, but like any life science student at any college, especially at UMass Amherst, um, there's a peer pressure somewhat to get involved in, in research and, and actually start getting some experience and whether or not you're a medical school student or, um, do you actually wanna be, you know, an academic professor or work in industry, um, you, you get this experience. And so as soon as I transferred over to biochemistry, I was a sophomore. Um, I started doing the cold emailing, uh, just about any professor I could see, regardless of what they were actually studying, I just knew I needed to get some experience, get something on my resume.

Griffin (01:52):

Um, and so I did the cold emailing and of the, yeah, 10, 15, 20 people, pretty professors I emailed. Only one answered, which was completely okay with me looking back. Um, and that was Doc Dr. Margaret Riley. Um, and she was studying bacteriocins. Uh, these are antimicrobial proteins in the race for preventing and treating, uh, bacterial disease. Bacteriocins have a very large role, at least potentially. Um, and that really interest me. So there were, you know, all these other professors were doing all this other research that I didn't really understand. Um, but finding alternatives to antibiotics in a world that, you know, sirens, the alarms on antibiotic resistance, um, even coming from outside of a life science discipline, I, I very much understood that. And so I was very happy to, to one, just get into any lab, but two, something that was a bit more meaningful, a bit more, um, visual, um, and something I felt that could actually, you know, have much more of an impact on the world. And it was something other people understood too, which is always great.

Abigail (03:05):

Right. And there was no personal reason. You didn't have any past history with antibiotic resistance or anything like that. You just really felt the calling because this is a, an increasingly global problem.

Griffin (03:19):

Yes. Um, yeah. I mean, one of the reasons I picked biochemistry was it, it's a super relevant major, especially in today's world, um, with kind of protein sciences and, um, a lot of the therapies today or more biochemical background. Um, and when I, yeah, when I came into her lab, I didn't have any kind of like healthcare issues or anything in my family that, that inspired me, but just kind of this idea that we can take what's in this lab and, and spin it out, and it actually had real potential, um, was very, I guess, inviting and, and kind of welcoming to me.

Abigail (03:56):

That's great. Um, so these bacteriocins are sort of, you know, to us it sounds new, but these, there's a history. bacteriocins have a history. They're, it's sort of what all, what's old is new again, is that correct?

Griffin (04:12):

Yep. Um, yep. Fashion is very cyclical and it seems in this case, so is science. Um, so yeah, the, the three big pathways of, of preventing and treating bacterial disease or or controlling, uh, bacteria are antibiotics, uh, bacteria, phages, and bacteriocins. And so these are kind of the three most direct approaches. And you've probably heard about antibiotics. It'd be really surprised if you didn't, and you've probably heard of bacteria of ages, and I would actually be surprised if you heard of bacteriocins. Um, and so they all started around the same time. So the germ theory where we actually realized it's not bad air that's causing illnesses, it's actually microbes, um, <laugh> in like the late 18 hundreds. Right. And then, you know, shortly after 1928 is when Alexander Fleming, uh, came across penicillin and discovered it kind of by accident. Um, and that was the first instance of, of kind of this, this new age almost of where we can actually start developing treatments, um, to something. I mean, before this, you could get, you know, you could, it's not impossible for you to die from a scrape on a knee or strep throat or something like that. So a lot of things we take for granted today, uh, that's easily treatable by antibiotics, um, really wasn't possible, uh, prior to their, their discovery.

Abigail (05:31):

Right.

Griffin (05:33):

Um, but yeah, the bacteria phages and bacteriocins were also kind of came about in that same era. Um, they really just got pushed aside thanks to the phenomenal efficacy of antibiotics, um, Right. As well as a big geopolitical story, um, just about, you know, World War II coming into play here. Um, a large fire actually both in Boston and in London. Um, it's a fascinating history. The implicate or the, the kind of threat, there's a weird threat within society of antibiotics and giving rise to a lot of things we, we enjoy today, even like fire codes, um, <laugh>, it's, it's really interesting. But, um, yeah, ultimately, right, uh, um, so during, during World War ii, um, we needed to produce at scale antibiotics. And so that was a big, um, kind of stepping stone in which, you know, Fleming might have discovered this antibiotic, but that's not really that useful if we can't give it to a lot of people.

Griffin (06:35):

And so with the US and the West's need to maintain soldiers, um, there was a lot of funding put into actually building these, these large scale production facilities, um, and kind of figuring out that process. Um, and so, you know, it's very rare. You, you get kind of a whole country, um, it's mind to work collectively on something like that. I mean, Covid Pandemic is, is quite literally the probably biggest, um, yeah. Story there, <laugh>. Um, and so we were able to, you know, that was the start of big pharma. So companies like Pfizer, like Lilly, um, that's really where they got their start with antibiotics. So antibiotics were actually like the backbone of kind of big pharma that we know. And, uh, well, some people love it, some people don't today. Um, meanwhile, yeah, the Germany and Russia had their part, right? Each picked either the bacteri phage or the bacteriocins.

Griffin (07:28):

I, I, I don't remember which one. I know Dr. Riley definitely knows. Um, but ultimately, yeah, the war went the same way. Um, the kind of fate of how we treat bacterial disease went, and so the west like the antibiotic, and it worked really well. And so that's kind of where we, where we put our, our, our money and our energy behind. Um, and of course, you know, 1950s came around, That was the golden age of antibiotic discovery. Uh, we just kept finding these things, one after the other, one after the other, one after the other. And so it seemed, it was quite literally, you know, dubbed the miracle drug. Um, but eventually resistance caught up and around the, you know, the eighties, nineties, it became even more of an issue. And today it's a huge issue. Um, so just over the Covid pandemic, I think antibiotic resistance infections, uh, increased like 18% just in the one year.

Griffin (08:15):

Uh, just cause we had no covid was, there were so many people in the hospital who are just throwing antibiotics away, like, like candy. Um, Yeah, <laugh>. Yeah. And so the, the other piece of this is the understanding of the microbiome. And so that, that wasn't a thing until the past 20 years or so. And even, even more so like the past 10 years, we didn't understand that the microbiome really existed, let alone that it had a function, let alone a really, really, really important function. And we're still understanding it. We're still in the very early stages of seeing the implication of the health or the microbit diversity of a microbiome. And that's it's impact on, um, our, our mental health, our physical health, uh, disease causing or immune fighting, right? All these different things. It can be proactive, it can be reactive. Um, and the where we are today in which we are trying to find alternatives, um, what's really causing that is this antibiotic resistance that's occurring as well as our new gained understanding of microbiomes and knowing that we don't want to disrupt them. Yeah. And that's what antibiotics do. They disrupt them, They work broad acting, they work indiscriminately, they kill all types of bacteria. Um, but these new approaches, bacteriocins and bacteriophages are very, very specific. And that is a tool we can use to still get this disease fighting, um, uh, mechanism, but without the collateral damage and the effect on the microbiome.

Abigail (09:51):

Right. So let's dig into the bacteriocin and just a little bit, the bacteria - , the bateriocin is created by one bacteria to stave off another bacteria, Is that correct?

Griffin (10:05):

Yes. Yeah. So it's, yeah, they, they've existed in nature, uh, for billions of years, and so they've kind of evolved to, well, bacteria when fighting with other bacteria over resources, bacteriocins are expressed and they're expressed to kill that other bacteria so that it's, it's kind of species can survive and it can get those resources, those nutrients. Um, so it's very much a kind of the, the weapon of choice, I like to say, uh, within kind of bacteria warfare. Um, Yep. And so it, it, it, and this kind of odes, this is one of the big reasons of why, um, we like them, uh, why they're, they're safer, right? They're nontoxic, um, and they're more narrow acting is because they only care about their exact microbial community, and they only care about killing bacteria. So there's not a lot of off target damage, both in terms of other bacteria species as well as things like human cells, Right? It only exists to kill that other bacteria so it can survive.

Abigail (11:03):

Amazing. So, um, so if you've got, if you are trying to target Bacteria A, you would, you as Organicin, and you're going to be looking at, um, uh, Bacteria B's uh, bacteriocin that's actually targeting Bacteria A, is that correct? Did I say that right? Yeah,

Griffin (11:26):

That <laugh>. Yeah, <laugh>, yeah. That is, uh, yeah, it's right. And so yeah, there, there's two parts to our company. There's, there's, or our platform. So really what Organicin and does today is, uh, we're a drug discovery company seeking to commercialize bacteriocins, and we do that through our discovery platform. Um, and there's two pieces to that. There's the, there's the protective modeling, and then there's the, uh, phenotypicscreening. And so the screening involves taking a Petri dish, uh, streaking a bacteria strain on it, and then dropping a bunch of different bacteria strains, um, like with like a little little dot, and seeing if it kills. So visually, I mean, we end up measuring it, um, but you visually see if it killed or not. And we repeat that, um, at a, at a very large scale, uh, what we do that all like, all day. And there's, there's a lot of technology now where you don't actually even need humans to do it. Uh, we of course still do because we're an early stage startup. Um, but yes. And so it's very much like which bacteria killed which bacteria, and from there you can, you know, we confirm that it was a bacteriocin, it almost always is. Um, but as simple as that sounds, there's a trillion species of bacteria. And so you can spend your whole life doing this, and you won't even come close to

Abigail (12:43):

Right,

Griffin (12:44):

Finding all the bacteriocins, let alone, like, you know, just because something produces the bacteriocin doesn't mean it kills it in, uh, the way you, you want to. So like Right, right. Coming out this

Abigail (12:57):

Complete,

Griffin (12:57):

Yeah, yeah. Coming out this, from a business perspective, just cuz it kills on the plate doesn't mean anything. Will that bacteriocin still work? Um, you know, even if there's salmonella and chicken or salmonella, like in humans, um, will that bacteriocin work in that physiological environment the same way? Like, probably not. Um, and then you'd take into account, right, aquaculture, right? Well, I work in the ocean. Uh, there's a lot of different environmental factors that

Abigail (13:21):

Yeah,

Griffin (13:23):

An academic lab really wouldn't take into account, but what we do, and so that shows up in our predictive model. Yeah. And this is really kind of the big, big differentiation. So we start with that business challenge and, and try to take into account those parameters so that when we go and do this screening, um, we we're very thoughtful about which of the 1 trillion bacteria we select to kind of, uh, to, to what we call, uh, we're kind of simulating, um, fitness or competition, right? Yeah. So we're really putting these against each other and seeing, making them fight and seeing if they produce the right bacteriocin. And so that's what we do at a very large scale. And the predictive model is what allows us to not have to look all across the globe and then all these bacteria, but instead, uh, pick the right bacteria to fight against each other to get the bacteriocin that we want, that ultimately will be, uh, a useful product. And that'll still work in the environment that we intend it to.

Abigail (22:26):

You're there to win. You're the other win. You're you, if you drop the ball, it's, you know, you're the, you lose that. I mean, that's, it's on you. You suffer for the consequences. Um, so, okay, we, we've, the one thing we haven't really talked about so far is what your applications are. You've got this incredible technology, you have a platform, you're discovering, um, different bacteriosins and their app and applications for them. What, where are you starting? What are, what's your, what's your go to here? 

Griffin (22:58):

Yes, our go to market, um, it's quite unique and it's not super consistent, which is always fun to communicate to investors. Um, but yeah, we, we've came across aquaculture. Um, and so why not Pharma Is a very, um, passionate question I get often, and that's because at least initially, I mean, we were like 21 years old, um, and nobody would take us seriously enough to think we could bring a drug through an FDA <laugh>.

Abigail (23:28):

Um,

Griffin (23:29):

So there's that that

Abigail (23:30):

said With the best humility, Oh,

Griffin (23:33):

We won't do that. Um, so we actually started in like treating, uh, fireblight in apples, and we found a lot of really, really, wait. We still to this day have a, um, cocktail of bacteriocins that can, uh, kill 99% of the pathogens causing fireblight with, I think it's like only causing, um, only killing 6% of the, the probiotic bacteria, the plant growth, running raso bacteria, phenomenal product, um, that I hope one day actually come to market. But agriculture is . I, I think it's the, have not confirmed this, I think it's one of the oldest like industries, society, right? That's the reason we stopped being hunters and gatherers, right. And we're able to actually develop society. So it's very old. So people are very stuck in their ways and, um, the use, you know, using something innovative isn't the, they're just not as open to innovation. But, you know, we came across aquaculture big thanks to blue Swell. Um, and yet kind of being located where we were. So, you know, I, we were based in Boston, in Amherst, um, right on the coast. A lot of aquaculture or a lot of, uh, seafood, um, you know, big hub of seafood industry

Abigail (24:42):

, New England.

Griffin (24:43):

Yeah, of course. Yeah. Yeah. And, um, aquaculture's a new industry. It, it's, you know, we, we recognize the need for more protein. We can't catch it from our oceans anymore because we've already depleted those stocks. Um, and so we have to grow it, uh, whether that's, you know, on the, the shoreline mariculture or actually land based, um, and oysters, were a very local, um, kind of one of the biggest aqua culture. So actually farming, seafood, um, species geographically. So, you know, Massachusetts is big for that. Maine is big for that. Um, Prince Edward Islands, you know, you got Canada as well, um, andreally all along the coast. Um, and so one aquaculture being this very young industry, they're much more open to innovation and with oysters specifically. So that's, if you can already tell, that's, that's where our first product is, is is being oriented to our first application is oysters.

Griffin (25:42):

And so there's a pathogen called, uh, Vio per he, Linus and Viro NICUs, uh, Vous is, is much, much nastier. Um, and it's a pathogen that absolutely loves warm waters. And so it is always been an issue, um, in the Gulf. And if you've ever heard of someone getting sick from oysters, it's probably one of these two pathogens. Um, however, climate change says warmed our oceans, and now we are getting this, this pathogen, um, in these parts where we haven't typically seen them like Maine where there's cold, cold water. Um, and the Pacific has, has always has had this issue. Um, but even more so now. Um, so like, uh, outside Washington, um, and it's

Abigail (26:23):

Just warming everywhere Yeah. Starting to see here in Europe too.

Griffin (26:27):

Yeah. Um, and so we had, we, we were made aware of this, this kind of market opportunity and you know, Dr. Riley was like, Vivio, Oh, we can, we can do that. That's no problem. Um, <laugh> so and so, um, we kind of pulled from our, our, our library of, of candidates and started to get to work and surely enough, yeah, we, we could kill it, um, time and time after again on the Petri dish. Um, and so as we got closer to the actual farmers and, you know, the wholesalers and understanding the, the value chain there, we saw the market opportunity was attractive enough, um, to go for it. And so that's what we're doing today. Um, we are currently testing this in vivo, so we've done some preliminary trials, testing the efficacy of, of these proteins in oysters was successful. And

Abigail (27:14):

We, and they haven't killed the oysters

Griffin (27:15):

Yeah. Of yeah, of course not. Um, yeah. So these, yeah, these are, again, these are, these are essentially designed by bacteria to kill other bacteria so they don't harm anything else besides That's amazing bacteria. And so, yeah, there's no, no damage. Um, there's no reason for it to affect the taste or texture of, of the oyster either. Um, we'll have to confirm that, of course. But I mean, that's the beauty of these things being proteins. They're so small. Um, they're, they're highly, um, there's such high efficacy that you don't need a lot. Um, and so they just, there's from a lot of different angles, they're, they're really perfect for this type of application.

Abigail (27:51):

That's amazing. So the oysters, you, they, they'll filter through this or how, how do, how do the oysters relate to the bacteriosin?

Griffin (27:59):

Yeah. So yeah, this is where the go to market gets a bit interesting. Um, so the oyster, we need a closed system to actually give them to, we're not gonna just dump this in the ocean. Um, it's, it'd be safe, but it would be extremely expensive <laugh>. Cause we would need a lot of bacteriocins. And, uh, so we need a closed system. Um, and oyster wholesalers have that system, it's called a wet storage tank they use in today. Yeah. For both inventory control as well as, um, to essentially purge so that the oysters can kind of filter the water and decrease those that, that bacterial load of Vibrio. Um, so that's a great point for us to deliver our solution. Um, and yeah, we've proven through our, our preliminary studies, they take it up, They, they, they eat it and it goes into their organs. Um, yeah, they filter it and, and that's how it ends up getting delivered and delivered to the right places kind of internally.

Abigail (28:49):

That's amazing. So, uh, you're starting with oysters and what, like, what does, what does the future hold for you guys?

Griffin (28:56):

Yeah, the, so our platform's industry agnostic, right? As long as it's a bacteria, we can kill it. And that opens up an unbelievably, uh, <laugh> large amount of markets to a point where it's overwhelming, right? There's, there's human health, of course, there's yeah. Like skincare. Um, yeah. But yeah, we're, we're staying with the aquaculture route for now, as I mentioned, they're just, the industry's much more open to innovation there. We cannot, we are using a ton of antibiotics in agriculture, but for a lot of different reasons, that's just not being allowed in aquaculture. Um, maybe because the bar's a lot higher. Yeah. People are demanding it a lot more so consumers. Um, but the whole idea of, of like, of like aquaculture is it's this kind of the untouched right? Seafood super healthy. And so we're not using antibiotics and then in other countries it's just outright being banned. And so our next product is less of food safety concern. Um, so the oyster, that oyster issue is right, that pathogen doesn't harm oysters, but it harms humans when they eat it. Yeah. And people get extremely sick and they die from it. And that, you know, I've started to hear those stories of people coming up to me and saying, you know, my, whoever was sick, um, I really appreciate what you're doing. And that's just another point for why we can't quit, because now it's starting to get to, like, you hear these personal stories of,

Abigail (30:13):

It's a personal Yeah.

Griffin (30:14):

People really need this. Um, I

Abigail (30:16):

Mean, I, as an oyster, former oyster farmer, I lived in absolute fear of giving somebody a vibrio. It was terrifying. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um,

Griffin (30:24):

Yeah, it can <laugh>. It's unfortunately, you know, it doesn't, the the number of people that get severely ill or, or or die from it isn't huge. Uh, or I'm sorry, luckily, um, but sometimes, sometimes investors don't look at that favorably. Cause I think it's a small market, right?

Abigail (30:39):

<laugh>.

Griffin (30:40):

But, but once, one's one's too many in my book. Um, but anyways, so yeah, our next, our next market is actually shrimp. And so this is a animal health, um, endeavor. And so actually these, this pathogen, it's the same pathogen, uh, causes mortality in shrimp production. Yeah. And so we're gonna be taking, again, likely a different bacteriosin, um, or maybe a cocktail of the one we're using it for oysters and some other ones, but delivering it via the feed. So making a feed additive and giving it to shrimp so that the bacteria can get delivered to their, uh, hepa or the pancreas. Uh, I won't give you the full name. Um, and preventing that pathogen from kind of taking hold. And, and this is a very large market. So shrimp, everyone in the world loves shrimp. It's one of the, uh, most valuable species in terms of aquaculture.

Griffin (31:29):

And this one disease, it's called acute hypo of pancreatic necrosis disease. Uh, they abbreviate as apnd, it's caused by this Vibrio. Um, it, it just, it wipes out farms. Um, I think in 2011, it just traveled through the world, and countries like Thailand are still trying to get their production levels back up to that, that kind of 2011 era, uh, wow. Production numbers. Um, and so there's a very large need for, for ways to kill it. We used to use antibiotics, um, but again, the, the regulatory environment now less even the consumer demanding it. But like in India, it, it, they just outright ban antibiotic use because they need to stay competitive with all the other markets trying to, um, sell into the US the EU, China, Japan. Yeah. And the US and EU increasingly are testing for antibiotic residues and sending, sending, uh, these shipments back

Abigail (32:22):

Stuff back. Wow.

Griffin (32:23):

And so, Yeah,

Abigail (32:25):

Go ahead.

Griffin (32:26):

I say, so there's just so much, uh, demand from like governments, from the farmers, Yeah. From, from all these stakeholders. Uh, we need new alternatives.

Abigail (32:35):

That's great. It's interesting that there is this different standard between, uh, land farming and aquaculture, but let's hope that, that, uh, that sets the, sets the bar higher for all foods. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> mm-hmm. <affirmative>. But so the shrimp farming, is this all in mangroves or is this all circulating systems? Um, in India, for example?

Griffin (32:56):

Um, yeah, it's, so they're all, um, like pond, so, so it's, it's all pond farming. Um, yeah. There are these high tech, uh, recirculating aquaculture system, [rafts?] Yeah. Um, those are more, again, EU /US. Um, yeah. But where we're, and they have some issues there too, they won't really tell you that, but, um, these bacterial pathogens still exist. It's hard to prevent microbes from entering places. They're so small. Right. But yeah, we're focused, and where majority of shrimp production comes in the world, are these, these ponds. Um, so they're usually close to the, the coast.

Abigail (33:29):

Um,

Griffin (33:31):

But they're very much kind of land based and that's, Yeah. Uh, Southeast Asia, um, central Latin America, um, in China are the big, big producing countries there.

VO: We’ll be right back with more Happy Planet.

BREAK

VO: Welcome back to my conversation with Griffin O’Driscoll.

Abigail (14:21):

It's so interesting, Griffin. Just amazing. So I wanna get back to you for a moment because I, you, you graduate from college in 2019, and you've been in this exciting lab environment, but then you, you head off to business school. And I'm wondering when you had sort of the aha moment that, you know, we could really make a business here, this, this lab work could actually be commercialized.

Griffin (14:48):

Yeah. I mean, again, the, one of the reasons, um, like why, why I wanted to join the lab was, well, it was, I, I saw it for the getgo that this was something usable because you almost grow up, um, if you live in a cave, you hear about antibiotic resistance. So I knew it was top of mind. And only over the years has it gotten louder and the calls for alternatives louder. Um, but yeah, what we wanted to actually do something about it and, and yeah, spin it outta the lab, make a company. Um, it was my senior year, um, of undergrad, and we were just at our weekly lab meeting, and the business school had a pitch competition. Dr. Riley asked, uh, any of us if we wanted to do something. She's had people in the past try, um, and actually won. So they've won a, there was a company called Bacteriotics and won about $30,000.

Griffin (15:37):

Um, and so she asked us, and I raised my hand. Well, I looked around first and no one else was doing anything, so I raised my hand. And, um, and then I pulled in Matt, because Matt was also in my lab, and he was, he was my friend, um, at school. So I was like, Oh, I'm not doing this alone. Um, and we made an application, we submitted it on that Sunday, it was a terrible idea and <laugh> and, uh, that didn't deter us. And we got a lot of good feedback. And that is the best part about the startup community is the very honest feedback. Um, yeah, usually it's not super negative or, or discouraging. It's, it's just very constructive. Um, and so we just went to work, iterating it over the years, and that's what we did. Uh, yeah, I went to business school, I went, I went to Boston University, um, and it was there. I mean, I still, I never gave this up. Matt was younger than me, so he was still in school. Um, and we just kept building and building and going and, uh, pushed in a lot in some really good directions. Um, and why we never gave it up was no one ever said like, this is a bad idea. Like, you need to do this, you need to get this, you need to, you know, show this. But it wasn't like, This is stupid idea. You should never do this. Um,

Abigail (16:50):

Right.There was never a hard stop.

Griffin (16:52):

Yeah. There, there was. It was like, you could just feel it. Like if we, if we, the only reason we could fail it is if we quit, so we can't. Right. Quit. Um, and then eventually, eventually, um, yeah, I graduated from, from business school, I went into, uh, consulting, uh, for, for pharmaceutical market access. Um, and then there was the, the blue swell incubator. So this was a Boston based, uh, incubator focus on blue tech companies, um, in partnership with the New England Aquarium and a, a community called Sea Ahead, uh, or platform. And that was, you know, we actually applied to there once. Um, and we didn't get in, but we met some of the reviewers who again, were like, Yeah, you guys are too early. You don't have, you know, the metrics, you don't have the milestones, but it's a great idea and we'd love for you to work with you and see if you can get in next year.

Griffin (17:44):

And that's exactly what we did. We did get in that next year, uh, which gave us, gave enough funding for me to go full time. And that was kind of the start, um, <laugh> of this journey. And, you know, that was coming up on just one year ago. Um, yeah, the anniversary of, of quitting my job and doing, doing this full time. And so it really, again, it, that's why I said at the beginning it kind of felt like I just fell into it. It just kind of snowballed. I said yes in that lab meeting, and then I just never found a good reason to stop going.

Abigail (18:14):

That's, that's as good a reason as any other to keep going. Um, and, uh, at one point there's no roadblocks. And then hopefully you get to another point where it's, you're actually getting pulled along. It's a little bit of a different momentum. 

Abigail (33:42):

Yeah. So, you know, you even mentioned this on your website. You, you've brought this, you're bringing this, this, you know, research from a lab into a commercial sphere. And I think that's a really big challenge for a lot of people. What do you think it is that, um, that is that, why do you think some things just get stuck in labs?

Griffin (34:11):

Um, well, there's, there's the market, there's technical risk of those market risks. And, you know, the good thing about something, like I say, deep tech, or if you're working in an academic lab, you're trying to spin it out, it's probably pretty technical. Um, whenever you're doing something technical, the market risk usually isn't, you know, that's the trade off, like we're talking about, right? Developing treatments for diseases that, that kill people. So someone's gonna buy that. Um, but can you actually make it, can you actually make that drug so that, so that's where like the technical risk comes into play. And I think a lot of people, um, just don't understand that kind of the, the other side of things of, again, you can find a bacteriosin, but can you find the right one that actually works in application you need, Right? So can you actually take this research that sure could be game changing, but can you make it into a product that actually has like unit economics that makes sense and is actually works in the way the customer needs it to?

Griffin (35:08):

And so there's, there's missing that piece and there's a lot of different, um, uh, support systems I guess here. And so like, you know, you have the, uh, NSF I Corpse program, so that's like working with, uh, academic professors. What they do is they do customer discovery, so they give 'em some money and they force them to call, you know, X number of people, uh, 20, 50, a hundred, um, to get that customer impact as a way to kind of get it in their heads that the customer is the only way this thing is gonna come outta the lab. Um, and then of course, startup accelerators and incubators have a role to play here, but I think there's just kind of, um, it, it's hard to be a PhD scientist and, uh, you know, like an MBA at the same time.

Abigail (35:51):

Right. It's a different, it's a different culture and maybe you're the, you're, you're the great model, maybe, you know, you know, students coming through and, uh, and, and finding some, you know, really exciting, you know, platform and, and spinning it off. But I, I think the other thing that you mentioned was the accelerators, like having, having more of these sort of business and entrepreneurial and pitch events and, you know, having that new culture inside the universities can actually be a big, um, make a big difference too. 

Abigail (18:14 cont):

Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So, um, uh, while we're, while you're talking about, um, uh, these, this accelerators, you've, you've been in a, a number of accelerators, correct?

Griffin (18:42):

Yes. Yep. So, uh, there, so there's a little bit of a difference between incubators and accelerators, but yeah, these, these, these, uh, startup communities and programs that typically give you funding, um, and a lot of networking and advice and mentoring. And so, yeah. So we did, uh, blue swell, um, just last year and then shortly after, where we are today is, uh, tech stars, Tech stars and Accelerator. Typically, accelerators are a little bit later stage. And so, um, you know, there's a, there's a higher bar to clear. Um, but yeah, they, they've been, they're an amazing part of the startup community that, again, these are pretty new ideas. Um, so like Blue swells on their third cohort, um, I think I'm the, maybe I think this Techstar accelerator, it's a Techstars farm to fork, it's based outta Minneapolis. Um, yeah. You know, we're one of the earl maybe the eighth, maybe the fifth cohort.

Griffin (19:41):

Uh, but these are very new and it's just, you know, you can go to, like, I went to business school, no one tells you how to really start a startup. Um, Right. I wasn't an entrepreneurship major, so I don't know how that looks. Um, but even like, one of my favorite things right now is I'm very focused on sales and trying to show commercial traction, which is hard to do when you're a biotech trying to develop, um, a drug that <laugh> that you're still researching. Um, and I'm like, no one ever taught me sales in business school. Um, and so there, there's this, it's essentially, uh, essentially essentially school for, for how to build a startup. And yeah, you meet a lot of people who have been there and done that. A lot of subject matter experts, a lot of people that have just successfully ran businesses, um, and from every angle, um, you know, legal, again, sales, marketing, operations, finance, and you just an unbelievable network. And the word accelerate is, is so true. You just, you're just able to completely 100% focus in a very inspiring environment, shoulder to shoulder with a bunch of other entrepreneurs doing the same thing in likely non-competing <laugh> uh, markets. And so you're, you're very, you know, it's, it's very helpful. Um, and it, yeah, it's, it's one of the, I think it's one of the most important pillars, um, of entrepreneurship.

Abigail (21:01):

That's interesting cuz I, they're, they're popping up in, you know, all over the country. I'm recording this from Paris right now, and there's tons of accelerators here. Um, and, uh, i I is sometimes I wonder if it's hard to make progress in the company while you're doing an accelerator.

Griffin (21:23):

Um, I mean, that, that it should, it shouldn't be, um, Right. The purpose of it should be to improve your business. Um, Yeah. And so, like, we're very clear about that here, that what I like about this program is it's very metric oriented. And so you yeah. You know, this whole idea, if you're not measuring, you're not, how, how do you know you're even doing something if a tree falls in the forest? How did you know? Um, so you have to be measuring. And so it's very much like, what are you doing week by week that is improving your business? Um, yeah. And that can differ and it does differ week by week. Um, but at, at the end of the day, they're not, you know, these programs, these mentors, uh, the network, they're not you, they're not running the company and there's a bunch of other things they got going on in their life. So it's up to you to prioritize your time and make sure you are doing the things that matter and that do actually progress forward. And sometimes that doesn't show up in a metric. And so there's, you know, metrics aren't perfect. Um, so ultimately it's up to the entrepreneur to, to kind of make sure that the fate of their company, um, is in the right direction.

Abigail (22:26):

You're there to win. You're the other win. You're you, if you drop the ball, it's, you know, you're the, you lose that. I mean, that's, it's on you. You suffer for the consequences. Um, so, okay, we, we've, the one thing we haven't really talked about so far is what your applications are. 

Griffin (36:25):

Yeah. And like, um, you know, some of these, you know, academia is very cool place. Um, you know, you're there for the purpose of curiosity and learning. And so that can be very different than someone that wants to build a company. And so that, Yeah. Right. And you see this a lot with like these, these kind of academic spinout startups, right? Dr. Riley is, um, she's, she's essentially part-timer. She's not giving up her her professorship. Um, yeah. And so you need to have those, that other side of things that is going to take this all the way, but you also need that subject matter expertise cuz no one else knows these, these proteins like her. And so you need both, right? And so it's, you have to create that right team. Um, yeah. And what I'm about to go into now is this, you know, I say we're a biotech company and there's this like thing going on where there's this new type of biotech called a tech bio. So they flip it. And so it's very much tech oriented. Um, and you're starting to see a lot of these, uh, scientists founded startups, which again, to my point of when I was saying that no one would take me seriously if I said I was gonna bring a drug for

Abigail (37:34):

FDA and

Griffin (37:34):

Stuff, uh, like that tide is slowly starting to change. And so there's this kind of perception and risk taking from the investor community, um, in which it's, it's getting more acceptable to be that, that young scientists or, or whatnot, um, and actually believing in them to kind of build this company.

Abigail (37:52):

Interesting. So speaking of, uh, investment and fundraising, uh, I know you've made around and you're gonna probably do another round soon pending some results. Where, where are you with all of that?

Griffin (38:04):

Yeah. Yep. So, uh, Techstars has been kind to us. Minneapolis has been kind to us and we, um, along with some angels back in Boston, we're able to put together pre seed round that gave us, um, enough funding to hit some pretty key milestones. And those are this InVivo data I talked about earlier. So, so showing that, you know, that that's a big de-risking event, a lot of it's, it's not easy, but it's not super hard to show results on a Petri dish. But when you introduce the complexities of, of life and actually on these organisms themselves, the oysters, um, and you can show efficacy there, that's, that's meaningful. Um, and so we're doing that right now. That's very top of mind. And then the other things we're trying to do is just show that commercial traction. Yeah. And really what that means is getting, getting that good data so we can go to, um, our customers, which we actually do, uh, uh, out licensing model.

Griffin (38:54):

So, well for oysters, it's, it's very direct, uh, cause there are no other people doing what we're doing. But in shrimp and in this kind of animal health sphere, there are very, very large companies, um, feed manufacturers that ultimately are gonna be our customers. We're gonna out license Yeah. Um, our products to them. Um, and so showing that commercial traction, getting letters of intent as well as, um, a techno economic analysis. So understanding our production costs and how that changes over time, how that scales. Um, and that's something that I've just, I've loved to learn about over the past couple months of like just getting it into my head that it doesn't matter if you have something good, this goes back to kind of that whole antibiotic discovery story. You have to scale it if you can't scale it. Yeah. Um, it's, it's almost meaningless.

Griffin (39:39):

And for some of these large, large animal, um, these feed companies, it's like, just cuz you have good data, if I can't get it consistently at the scale I need for my customers, then we're not gonna do anything. Um, and so being able to understand that, how that production cycle, uh, looks and how it scales and the volumes needed and the cost is gonna be really important to be able to say like, Hey, this works in the organisms, we can do it cheaply. And then that allow us to, uh, hopefully <laugh>, hopefully, uh, raise our next round. So yeah, we're, we're hoping to raise a, a 3 million seed round, um, in January.

Abigail (40:13):

Wow. Fantastic. So what is this, you know, how do you feel, uh, right now? I mean this is, you've just, you've grown leaps and bounds over the last 18 months and, you know, you just close this, uh, first seed round, you're about to, you know, in January you're gonna go back to the table for 3 million. You're, you're doing great in the, you know, lab testing. Everything seems to be headed in the right direction, you know, how do you feel about it

Griffin (40:42):

<laugh>? Um, I'd say there's definitely a lot of missteps along the way, but, uh, ultimately, yeah, I I, I feel optimistic. Um, you, I guess you can't really not be, but yeah, I've never felt more confident. And so the, the big thing for me is that like, I believe in the bacteriocin in as like a class of antimicrobal proteins. Like these things work and they work really well and they work in a way that is better than what we have today and what people are promising for tomorrow. And so this is gonna happen, like somebody's going to commercialize us and so it might as well be us and might as well be me. Those will we met. Yep. As will be Dr. Riley. Um, and so, like as long as I continue to believe in the bacteriosin and I believe in our company, and again, I speaking to people within the oyster industry, speaking to shrimp farmers, um, like this, this, there's, there's, there's traction there.

Griffin (41:35):

There's, it's very clearly a problem. Um, disease is very clearly a problem. And the approach we're taking, uh, I think the go market, um, I think of the production, uh, that, that we're kind of figuring more about understanding more, it, I think it's gonna work <laugh>. And so yeah, it's just a matter of like executing now and just making sure our time is allocated in the right place. Our, our, the recently raced capital is allocated in the right place that the few team members we do have, you know, have the sufficient resources, have the right, um, plans and strategy, et cetera.

Abigail (42:08):

But you are not just building a company, you're building a company that, you know, can change people's lives. Like if, if you may save a life with, with the vio oyster application, you're gonna save, you know, farming, you know, change farmers' lives, which is, you know, key to feeding a growing planet. There's more than just making a company here. There's a greater mission that, How do you feel about that? 

Griffin (42:39):

Um, well, yeah, certainly <laugh>, uh, right now I feel really good about it. Hopefully, and I don't get too, um, distracted by the emotions cuz you're, you're right there. Like antibiotic resistance has so many implications in our society beyond just, um, like simple diseases or like food production. Like there are, So if this thing gets as bad as we think it's gonna get, it's gonna a lot of pillars, um, that hold up society and all of things we take for granted today are gonna, are gonna go back. And so just more to my point of like, we, we have to do this. Like, so, like we have to find alternatives. And so in a way it almost makes it easier, um, because it's like there's no choice. You can't look back <laugh>, you just have to go forward and like yeah. In a way it's like, I look for that. You, you almost wanna look for that failure. Like how can I disprove this? Why would this not work, Right? Why should we stop? And so like, until you can be like, No, we tried our best. This isn't gonna work for this reason. You just kind of have to keep building.

Abigail (43:42):

Well that's great. Um, in five years, where is this gonna be?

Griffin (43:46):

Five years? Uh, we would've raised our series A, uh, five years we'll be like, have our hands in all sorts of things. So by then we would've had products for, uh, salmon and tilapia. We would've gotten to agriculture. Um, so chicken swine, maybe cattle, um, and ideally have started to look into the human side of things. So not even close to amazing, um, anything resembling a product, but starting that, that early, early discovery work of Yep. You know, maybe what pathogens would want to kill and can we get some early, early in vitro data on that. Um, but really just starting to build out, build out the company, build out our processes and, and I I shortly touched upon the predictive model that is in a very nascent stage right now. Yeah. But like the more data we get every time we, we search for new s we get more data and I just can't wait for the day where like we just have this, this massive database of, of that will just, uh, push forward our, our understanding of s and then we're in a spot where like discovery's just super, super efficient and which, you know, we understand these things so well that we can find that bacteria and that does kill that human pathogen.

Griffin (44:55):

Like, I won't say easily, but Right. Uh, quickly. And so I look forward to, to kind of building out the, the platform technology side of the company, um, just as much as like the, the revenue generating products.

Abigail (45:09):

Well thank god Dr. Riley invited you into her lab.

Griffin (45:13):

<laugh>. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I should, uh, buy her dinner one day.

Abigail (45:17):

<laugh>. Um, what advice would you give to other entrepreneurs who are looking at you and, and, and dreaming of becoming like you?

Griffin (45:26):

Um, so yeah, I owe so much back to the startup community. Um, so the, the first step is, is to just like dive into that community. Um, and if you're like younger, like if you have a university email address, you can essentially talk to anyone you want in the world. Um, because most people just want to help. And like the amount of innocence you have is a college student saying, I want to learn about this. Uh, I don't know why anyone would turn you down. Um, so use that to your advantage and just start talking to people. Um, get that feedback and uh, really just go for it. Um, like it again, like shoot for failure in a way. Like find out what doesn't work so you can then focus on what does work. Um, the faster you can disprove things, the faster you can get to the point where you can focus on the thing that does work.

Abigail (46:17):

So it's spoken like a true scientist. Well thank you Griffin, so much for your time. Yeah, thank you. Uh, just No pleasure. So interesting and I'm so excited for you, uh, and your partners and I look forward to future updates.

CONCLUSION

VO: Talking to Griffin, I gleaned a lot of valuable information about the future of biotech, the long road from a lab to product launch, and the mechanics of bacteriocins. But my biggest takeaway was that Organicin is more than just a company. It has a mission and stands to change the lives of farmers, which I believe is key to feeding a growing planet. 

CREDITS

Thank you for listening. Please follow the Happy Planet Podcast wherever you listen and leave us a rating and review - it really helps new listeners discover the show. 

Happy Planet Podcast was reported and hosted by me, Abigail Carroll. I am the Executive Producer. The talented Dylan Heuer [hoyer] is our producer and editor. Composer GEORG BRANDL EGOFF created our theme music.

Learn more about my work and get in touch by visiting happyplanetcapital.com.